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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Ypres 1914


gerrard

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Recently found out that my great grandfather died in trenches east of Kemmel on 25th Dec 1914.

He was from Northern Ireland but joined the South Lancashire Regiment 2nd Battalion. PTE John McCann

Can anyone provide me with details of this regiment during this time, or the incident surrounding his death?

Thanks

Colin

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Welcome to the forum, Colin.

I've had a look in "Soldiers Died in the Great War" and I see that there were 27 soldiers who died in the war, called John McCann. The closest match I can find was 4629 Pte John McCann, 2nd Battalion the Connaught Rangers, who was killed in action on the 18th December, 1914. He was born in Sligo.

"Soldiers Died....." lists about 80 soldiers who died on Christmas Day, 1914, but none of them was called McCann. But if a soldier died close to Christmas Day, it wouldn't come as a surprise to learn that family history had moved the date a little!

The second Battalion, South Lancashire Regiment were certainly in the Kemmel area on 25.12.16. Strangely enough they did have soldier called John who died on Christmas Day 1914, and he came from Shankhill, Co. Antrim. But his name was John Brown.

Does any of this ring a bell for you?

Best wishes -

Tom

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CWGC site shows the following:

Name: McCANN, JOHN

Initials: J

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Private

Regiment: South Lancashire Regiment

Unit Text: 2nd Bn.

Age: 29

Date of Death: 25/12/1914

Service No: 7236

Additional information: (Served as BROWN), Son of Edward and Jane McCann, of 74, Avon St.; husband of Sarah McCann, of 60. Avon St. Ballymacarrett, Belfast.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 37.

Memorial: YPRES (MENIN GATE) MEMORIAL

Could this be your man?

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Colin

Here is some information taken from Ray Westlake's book British Battalions in France and Belgium 1914 for the Prince of Wales's Volunteers (South Lancashire Regiment) in December 1914.

Various drafts arrived and War Diary records Battalion's strength (22nd) as 16 Officers, 979 other ranks. An interesting survey was undertaken with a view to establishing how many of the men of the Battalion were from Lancashire. The findings were - Blackburn (13), Burnley (9), Leigh (3), Liverpool (291), Manchester (79), Preston (17), Prescott (2), Rochdale (3), St. Helens (168), Southport (17), Warrington (47), Wigan (83), Widnes (47), Total 779. The remaining 200 were men from - London (35), Birmingham (32), other places (133). To firing line south-east of Kemmel near Lindenhoek (24th). Relieved by 1st Gordon Highlanders (27th) and to Westoutre.

Given the date of John's death, I had a look at Malcolm Brown and Shirley Seaton's book, Christmas Truce: the Western Front December 1914, to see whether the South Lancashire Regiment was mentioned. Unfortunately, there is not mention of them and it appears that the areas where the Christmas truce occurred were further to the south, commencing approximately west of Messines.

As Tom shows, many deaths occurred on Christmas day, and some of these even happened in the places where a truce was apparently observed. It is possible your great grandfather died as a consequence of a single incident. The war diary might reveal further information, although Westlake did use it as his source, so you might assume that an attack or barrage of some sought would have received mention in his book.

Chris

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Sorry I could not reply to everyone sooner,I would like to thank everyone who took the time to send me the information on this soldier.

Mark if possible could you please tell me where Chater Street is?

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Sorry I could not reply to everyone sooner,I would like to thank everyone who took the time to send me the information on this soldier.

Mark if possible could you please tell me where Chater Street is?

Colin,

I have a copy of the regimental history. Will do a look up for you when I get home this evening and let you know what it has tomorrow.

Best,

Paul Byrne

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I have a copy of the regimental history. Will do a look up for you when I get home this evening and let you know what it has tomorrow.

Best,

Paul Byrne

I'll save you the trouble Paul.

Christmas Day 1914 isn't mentioned in it. (Inspection by Smith-Dorrien on 24th dec, then jumps to January 1915).

Dave.

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I'll save you the trouble Paul.

Christmas Day 1914 isn't mentioned in it. (Inspection by Smith-Dorrien on 24th dec, then jumps to January 1915).

Dave.

You are only right. Wish I had read your post before leaving work last evening.

Sorry colin.

Best,

Paul Byrne

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  • 7 years later...
Guest Avon Street

Gerrard

Did you ever make any headway in your research on Pte John McCann. Was he your Great Grandfather?! A colleague at work who also claims John as her Great Grandfather is currently attempting to establish how he came to be in England at the time, as he was conscripted. Of course, conscription did not extend to Ireland. He was in Belfast at the time of the 1911 Census but while his father signed the Ulster Covenant in 1912, John did not, which makes me think that he had moved to England in the interim. Have you any further information...?!

Geordie D.

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Gerrard

Did you ever make any headway in your research on Pte John McCann. Was he your Great Grandfather?! A colleague at work who also claims John as her Great Grandfather is currently attempting to establish how he came to be in England at the time, as he was conscripted. Of course, conscription did not extend to Ireland. He was in Belfast at the time of the 1911 Census but while his father signed the Ulster Covenant in 1912, John did not, which makes me think that he had moved to England in the interim. Have you any further information...?!

Geordie D.

He could not have been conscripted in 1914 (over a year later for that to start): he would have been a volunteer.

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  • 8 years later...

Actually the entry for 2nd Bn South Lancashire Regt does exist for 25 Dec 1914 (WO 95/1414/1) where it states that last night '3 men killed - 3 wounded'. Private John McCann is commemorated on the Harland & Wolff, Belfast, WW1 Memorial where he was a shipyard labourer. His father Edward was a riveter. 

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