rony Posted 28 March , 2006 Share Posted 28 March , 2006 Hi, Can anyone identify this badge? Its made from brass & has the motto "Tria Juncta In Uno" picked out in red enamel around the top. About 3cm across I've not had much luck with Google; so I hope you can help. Thanks for your time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted 28 March , 2006 Share Posted 28 March , 2006 I have one very similar and always thought it was an epaulette pip for an officer. I may be wrong but that is my best guess. Liam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bantamenace Posted 28 March , 2006 Share Posted 28 March , 2006 Not sure about this ,but here's what i found. Tria iuncta in uno (Tria juncta in uno) Three joined in one (L.) Motto of the Order of the Bath. A modified Star of the Bath with the motto and three crowns serves as the star ("pip") rank badge in most of the British Army. Brigade of Guards (i.e. Grenadier Guards, Coldstream Guards, Scots Guards). Although the Brigade was augmented in 1900 by the Irish Guards, and in 1915 by the Welsh Guards, the Brigade motto and badge was not modified to Quinque juncta in uno until 1949. This was modified again in 1959 to encompass the whole Household Brigade (i.e. including the Life Guards and Royal Horse Guards) as Septem juncta in uno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 28 March , 2006 Share Posted 28 March , 2006 Liam is right, It's an officers star (or "pip"). Terry Reeves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rony Posted 28 March , 2006 Author Share Posted 28 March , 2006 Thanks for the informative (& fast!) response guys Is it possible to tie it down to a particular regiment & time period? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob B Posted 28 March , 2006 Share Posted 28 March , 2006 Not really as very common and worn by most officers with notable exeptions of Guards, various Cavalry and some other regiments, as to date from 1900s-1980s Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcerha Posted 28 March , 2006 Share Posted 28 March , 2006 Extend that date to 2006 as they are still very much in use today.. for instance following Army ranks are designated by "pips" or a combinations of " Pips" and "Crowns" 2Lt = 1 Pip Lt = 2 Pips Capt = 3 pips Maj = Crown Lt Col = Crown and Pip Col = Crown and 2 Pips Brig = Crown and 3 pips.......after that it gets really complicated! Hope this helps Regards David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Stewart Posted 28 March , 2006 Share Posted 28 March , 2006 Eyerony, Officers badges of rank, which we are familiar with today were introduced about 1800, but only Field Officers with the rank of Lieutenant Colonel and Major wore them. The Lt-Col's badge was actually a crown and the Majors a star shape not unlike those worn by officers of the Coldstream Gds and were worn on lace epaulettes. By 1816 the shape of the Majors rank badge had altered to the pip shape we know today, but again only the two Field Officers ranks continued to be badged as already mentioned. By 1853 Field Officers rank badges are re-arranged as follows;- Colonel - Crown & Star. Lt-Col. - Crown. Major - Star. In 1856 the badges of rank were silver embroided, but extended to include all officers. They were also removed from the epaulettes and placed on the collar of the tunic. The arrangement was;- Crown & Star for Colonels & Captains. Crown for Lt-Col's & Lieutenants. Star for Majors and Ensigns. The Colonels, Lt-Col's and Majors being Field Officers were distinguished by 1/2 inch wide gold lace all around their collar. The final change came in 1881 when they were removed from the collar to the shoulder straps and the badge format was also changed to;- Colonel - Crown & 2 Stars Lt- Col - Crown & 1 Star Major - Crown Captain - 2 Stars Lieut - 1 Stars 2nd Lieut - no rank badges. I'm uncertain as to when exactly the star arrangements for company officers changed to 3, 2 & 1 Star for Captain, Lieut and 2nd Lt, but they was certainly being worn on the cuff of the officers SD tunic from 1902. Graham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Contemptible Posted 29 March , 2006 Share Posted 29 March , 2006 As previously stated, this is a British Army Officer's 'pip'. I have always known them as 'Bath Stars'. Still on issue, but now in nasty (but jolly convenient) staybrite finish. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Dave Posted 29 March , 2006 Share Posted 29 March , 2006 I seem to recall they are worn with the two little centre dots to the top, or closeest to the wearers neck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwenlock Posted 29 March , 2006 Share Posted 29 March , 2006 Plus they can be 3/4" or 1/2" dependent upon the unit. Also 1/2" black for Light Division & Ghurka units Yours aye OxfordYeoman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg1 Posted 29 March , 2006 Share Posted 29 March , 2006 The little bumps are crowns representing the three kingdoms. You have to wear them the right way up. If you look closely you will see the arches on the crowns which need to go to the top ie near the wearers neck. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg1 Posted 29 March , 2006 Share Posted 29 March , 2006 The little bumps are crowns representing the three kingdoms. You have to wear them the right way up. If you look closely you will see the arches on the crowns which need to go to the top ie near the wearers neck. Two to the top with the lettering up the right way from the perspective of somebody standing looking along the length of the shoulder strap Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rony Posted 29 March , 2006 Author Share Posted 29 March , 2006 Thanks everyone for taking the time to share your knowledge, its been very helpful. As for date, it seems they were around for most of the 20th century, into C21st even (though this one, being brass, must be pre-1980's I guess) Is there any way to get a more precise date? Any distinguishing features between WW1 & WW2 periods say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsyeoman Posted 29 March , 2006 Share Posted 29 March , 2006 My Dad's 'easy reminder' for wearing pips correctly (as an infantry officer himself) was 'the infantry platoon in the attack' "Two [sections] up, one in reserve' As I've noted in this forum 'afore, much fun to be had baiting the pompous - especially those in matters of dress - "Pardon me, sir, your second pip is upside down, you may be improperly dressed" (The 'may' being utterly vital to avoid extra duties...) I did it to our deeply unpopular Cadet Commandant (full Colonel) once.. it was like an HM Bateman cartoon, but he couldn't upbraid me in front of the Mess - I was right - and it was one of those 'little victories of which life is made'. I didn't half see a few knowing sniggers around the bar, tho.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audax Posted 29 March , 2006 Share Posted 29 March , 2006 Plus they can be 3/4" or 1/2" dependent upon the unit. Also 1/2" black for Light Division & Ghurka units Yours aye OxfordYeoman Black 'pips', or more correctly Bath Stars were/are worn by Army Chaplains in Service Dress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Tom Posted 29 March , 2006 Share Posted 29 March , 2006 Hello, Final thought for which I cannot quote an authority but the three little bumps are bishops mitres, hence these indicate if the badrge is the right way up. Old Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icey Posted 31 October , 2007 Share Posted 31 October , 2007 Hi, I was wondering I have 2 of these badges these are why I joined this site! Trying to find out more information on them which has been very informative but my question is. My uncle peter (thats what we used to call him) was in the german army he came over to england with the germans & got captured & was a prisoner of war in england. I do not know his name as he changed it after he escaped the camp & fled to Australia with my Great grandmother who'm was English. Quite a pickle I know, From what I can figure those medals wernt given to German's so I am wondering how he got hold of 2 of them apar from stealing them. I also have 2 other small nearly like pendants of his with Dresden on top & the other has KOLN on it Im trying to figure if they have any meaning also.. Thanka for any imput.. icey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Johnson Posted 31 October , 2007 Share Posted 31 October , 2007 The smaller pips were worn by Captains 3 x pips or Colonels 1 x crown 2 x pips, as otherwise the epaulette got crowded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 31 October , 2007 Share Posted 31 October , 2007 This picture shows the crowns a little better. What`s the significance of what looks like a maltese cross showing its edges? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob B Posted 31 October , 2007 Share Posted 31 October , 2007 Hi Michael, Pips or stars are the same size for Captains as they are for 2/LTs and Lts in there respective units, its the Regimental variants the smallest are those worn by certain cavalry regiments and Rifle Regiments. Rob PS With Brigadiers the shoulders did get very crowded and certainly for Full Generals. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbrydon Posted 31 October , 2007 Share Posted 31 October , 2007 Some infantry regiments used other stars, if my memory serves me correctly I think the South Wales Borderers and the Middlesex Regiment used something called the Eversleigh star. P.B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Clifton Posted 31 October , 2007 Share Posted 31 October , 2007 The star of the Order of the Bath was adopted by that order in about 1801, the date on which Great Britain (i.e. England and Scotland only) were joined with Ireland to form the United Kingdom. Tthe "St Patrick's" cross was added to the Union Jack at the same time. Both the three crowns and "Tria juncta in uno" refer to this Union. I think the cross is probably derived from the Hanoverial roots of the Georges. The Royal Guelphic Order used a similar cross, I believe. Incidentally, it is called a cross formy or formee: the true Maltese cross has indentations in the ends of the four arms. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 31 October , 2007 Share Posted 31 October , 2007 --> QUOTE(Rob B @ Oct 31 2007, 03:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> PS With Brigadiers the shoulders did get very crowded . Rob Though not in WW1! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icey Posted 31 October , 2007 Share Posted 31 October , 2007 Here is a link to the photo of the 4 pips? the 2 smaller ones are the ones I cant find any information about, the left one has KOLN on top with 3 crowns & 11 flames at the bottom, the other has DRESDEN on top with a dragon on the left with 3 stripes on the right as you can see they are small. Thanks Medals Sorry the photo is in photobucket just click medals above. Cheers Angie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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