Two Brothers from Wales

[Guest Cienwen]

When I was a kid my mum often spoke about her two brothers who died in the Great War. Her parents never knew what happened to their boys for that's what they were and all they had to go on were the stories brought back by neighbours sons who had survived.

Recently I found the CWGC site and was lucky enough to find both the sons names.

I am hoping that if I post the information I have on this forum, someone may be able to fill in some gaps for me.

The information I have is:

1) Thomas Lewis - Private 17142 - 14th Bn. Welsh Regiment who died on Monday 10th July 1916

2) William Upton Lewis - Private 17143 - 14th Bn. Welsh Regiment who died on Friday 18th February 1916

As can be seen by their service numbers, the boys enlisted one after the other and had come to an agreement for Tommy to put his age up so Willie, who was too young to join up could go with his brother.

The last their parents heard about them was, Willie, who had a great Welsh voice was singing as he and his peers were marching. Willie was shot through the throat by a sniper, so the story goes. Tommy was last seen injured and waiting for the red cross who were close by.

I would like to know if possible , what engagements they would have been involved in at the time they died, where I can obtain their service records (if available) what medals they should have recieved and if Tommy's service record will give the name of the girl he was married to.

Can anyone help please.

[Neil Mackenzie]

Cienwen.

By the Battle of the Somme, the 14th Battalion Welsh Regiment were part of 38th Division.

A summary from Chris Mccarthy's book 'The Somme - the day by day account' mentions the following for 10 July.

1. At 4.15am the 38th Division attacked Mametz Wood from White Trench led, on the right, by 13th and 14th Welsh Regiment (114 Brigade). Under cover of the barrage they reached the edge of the wood, pushed on to the first ride and dug in.

2. To the east of the wood an oddly shaped projection known as Hammerhead continued to cause problems so at 4.30pm the 10th South Wales Borderers advanced on it with 14th Welsh Regiment in support (amongst others).

3. By 6.30pm Mametz wood was cleared to within 40 yards of the northern edge but a machine gun beyond the wood prevented any further progress, despite efforts of the 14th Welsh Regiment and 17th Royal Welsh Fusiliers.

If you can see the attached picture, Mametz Wood is on the left edge of the map towards the botoom with the Hammerhead by the 19 and White Trench not marked but I believe it is near the 'B' in 25B to the South.

While Thomas could have been wounded on an earlier day and died on 10 July he is commemorated on the Thiepval Memorial to the missing so I suspect he was killed in one of the actions above.

[Bernard_Lewis]

Neil is spot on - the 14th Welsh entered Mametz Wood (with the rest of the Welsh Division) on 10 July 1916. The 14th went in 676 strong and lost almost 100 killed and 300 wounded in a day of intense fighting.

Its past midnight, my notes are in a mess due to redecorating - but I'll try and get you some more info soon. My history of the 14th Welsh (the Swansea Battalion) will be published next year (Pen & Sword Books) and I would be very pleased to receive further info on the two lads referred to. I cannot recall their names from my researches but I'll (hopefully) check tomorrow.

From memory in Feb 1916 the Battalion was at Laventie but I'll need to check.

Bernard

[Guest Cienwen]

Many thanks to both Neil and Bernard for replying so quickly to the message I posted. Any further advice from anyone else who can help would be most appreciated.

Cienwen.

[Annette Burgoyne]

Hi Bernard

In the course of researching the 14th Welsh have you picked up any info. on the 10th Welsh by chance, or you may know someone who is interested in the 10th Welch.

The reason I ask is that on the 18th August 1917, the 6th K.S.L.I. hand over their line near White House, Langemarck, to the 10th Welch but when the 20th Division re-took over the area on 11th Sept., the line had been pulled back closer to White Trench. I would like to know if this was done due to German attacks or because the position was too far in advance of rest of the line, it would have made sense to pull it back inline with the rest of the line.

Plus the K.S.L.I. had named the trench that they had dug over the 16th, 17th and 18th, Shropshire Trench, have you ever come across any trench maps covering 38th Div. between 18th Aug and 11th Sept. 1917, with this trench marked on it. I know the K.S.L.I.'s positions from map refs. but have never found a map with Shropshire Trench marked on it.

Annette

[Bernard_Lewis]

Cienwen - very busy here and off to Greece for 2 weeks from Wednesday but I should be able to post you some info very late tonight - after my home chores are done!

Annette - not sure if I can help here but I'll check the war diary and I do have some trench maps and I'll check those ASAP - might be tonight otherwise after my Greek sojourn I'm afraid - but I will come back even if only a 'nil'. Bear with me folks - if only I could pack in the day job!

Bernard

[Annette Burgoyne]

Hi Bernard

I got your email this morning, I will reply via email later.

Many Thanks

Annette