Garde Grenadier Posted 19 September , 2003 Share Posted 19 September , 2003 I'm doing research on the fate of Gerhard Friedrich Luettmer, Unteroffizier IR 457, buried in the German cemetery at Langemark as "Luettner". According to old letters he was killed at a place called "Kocknickhock" or "Kocknickhoek" in Flanders. I can't identify this place, the spelling is very probably completely wrong. I would like to know wether anybody has got an idea, where this place might be and how it is spelled correctly. Br. Gerold - that was his name as a Benedictine brother - was killed Sept. 26. 1917. After a long search I found his grave at Langemark where many German fallen were re-buried after WWI. Thanks for any advice Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glennaa Posted 19 September , 2003 Share Posted 19 September , 2003 The two names I have found that come the closest are Koekuithoek and Kijkuithoek. Both are in West flanders, the first is between Ypres and Roeselare, the second is between Kortrijk and Menen. Hope this helps. Glenn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glennaa Posted 19 September , 2003 Share Posted 19 September , 2003 Come to think of it, if you are going by cursive script, it is most likely Koekuithoek, as a few misidentified letters would be the difference. It is also closer to Langemark. Glenn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph J. Whitehead Posted 19 September , 2003 Share Posted 19 September , 2003 Daniel, According to the 251 German Division book the regiment was fighting between Zonnebecke and Polygon Wood during this period. Just to the rear and north of this point is a location spelled Koekuithoek. It is in the right location to have been involved with the fighting by IR 457 and could in all probability have been a casualty clearing station. It is just east of Moorslede. Ralph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted 19 September , 2003 Share Posted 19 September , 2003 To Brother Gerold. The statues at Langemark German Cemetery. Aye Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph J. Whitehead Posted 19 September , 2003 Share Posted 19 September , 2003 I tried to scan the map, I do not know if it will be readable, but here goes. Ralph (Apparently not, sorry, you can just make out Paschendale at the lower left, Moorslede is just to the right of it and Koekuithoek is the word just above Moorslede and the town is to the right.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garde Grenadier Posted 20 September , 2003 Author Share Posted 20 September , 2003 Thanks a lot to you all, Glenn, Ralph and Malcolm. That is most helpful. Yes, I could read the small map. It seems to be the place where Br. Gerold was mortally wounded. He already had survived being wounded near Verdun on Aug. 24th 1914. Thanks again Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garde Grenadier Posted 20 September , 2003 Author Share Posted 20 September , 2003 On a more humourous note: I was told by another old brother that Br. Gerold was called to the army being a Reserve-Unteroffizier (before he joined the Order). At Münster station a company had gathered and it was called out: "Any officer present?" The only one was Br. Gerold - in full black Benedictine habit. So he had thus to take command of the company... Quite a sight, which must have put some smirks on military faces... Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annette Burgoyne Posted 20 September , 2003 Share Posted 20 September , 2003 Hi Daniel Do not know if you will be interested in info. from the British side. On the 26th Sept. 1917, the British attacked from astride the Menin Road to Gravenstafel Spur. The units attacking between Polygon Wood and Zonnebeke were the 5th Australian Division at Polygon, the 4th Australian Division were on the 5th Div’s left flank, the 3rd British Division were either side of the Ypres—Roulers railway with Zonnebeke as part of its objectives. By the way one of the Shropshire battalions (I am researching this Regt.), the 7th Batt., took part in attack but they were on left of Hill 40, north of Zonnebeke, and may not have been in the area of the IR 457 ?. The British (sorry any Australians looking at this, I know it will really piss you off, your forces being called British but your forces were classed as British at time, just getting my tin hat ready to receive incoming shell fire from Paddy ), gained most of their objectives, but the 98th Brigade failed on right flank of the 5th Australian Div., which caused ill-feeling. The 98th were very weak due to being very heavy attacked by 50th German Res. Div. on the 25th, plus they had only just taken over the line before the attack. The British had carefully elaborated plans to deal with anticipated counter-attacks by the inclusion of the more important observation areas in their objectives, many of these areas over looked German assembly areas, also Second Army Intelligence had roughly worked out were assembly places and ways of approach would be. By noon visibility was ideal, Germans counter-attack forces were seen massing on the Broodseinde-Passchendaele ridge among other places, these areas were heavily shelled, was the IR 457 a counter-attack unit on this day by any chance ?. In consequence all counter-attacks were disjointed and failed. Just for anyone from Ludlow (my home town), Sgt. George Pardoe, K.S.L.I., of Ludlow, was awarded the Belgium Croix De Guerre for action on this day. Annette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest paddy Posted 21 September , 2003 Share Posted 21 September , 2003 G'day Annette. Well you culd say I was almost invited to comment. May be a bit subdued today, as its the 86th anniversary of Dad's cousin losing his personal battle at Polygon Wood. Personally I'm not the least pissed off with what you say, in my opinion you are contributing, not 'KNOCKING'. Concerning the ill feeling you mention, the fact that it was "raised" by Pompey Elliott, [formerly 7 Bn AIF, and unashamedly My All Time Hero] probably contributed to his lack of promotion and subsequent misery. But, talking of hats, please check out "Elliott" on the "www.unsw.adfa.edu.au" site. It doesn't mention his "gripe" about Polygon, but there has been plenty written about that in other biographies. Hope it adds to your mosaic. ooRoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annette Burgoyne Posted 21 September , 2003 Share Posted 21 September , 2003 Hi Paddy Dam I went to all the trouble of building a six foot trench, with sand bag parpet for nothing I did mean it light heartedly. I will look at site on Pompey Bloody Elliott, as Martie calls him in ANZACs, when he leads his Division up. I'll spare a thought for your Dad's cousin. Good day sport Annette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest paddy Posted 21 September , 2003 Share Posted 21 September , 2003 Annette it was a real good day [for] sport. did you see Lleyton play this arvo? Don't fill in the trench yet. I can't lay claim to being the only extremist with access. Thanks for the "thought'. A few people have at least remembered "Jackie" this last week. ooRoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annette Burgoyne Posted 21 September , 2003 Share Posted 21 September , 2003 Hi Paddy No I did not see Lleyton, I was too busy running after a small orange ball myself most of the day. Did he win ? Annette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garde Grenadier Posted 22 September , 2003 Author Share Posted 22 September , 2003 Do not know if you will be interested in info. from the British side. Annette Hi Annette, yes of course! I'm interested in both sides of the story. I have to confess I didn't understand the following mails between you and Paddy. But the above helped. Thanks Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garde Grenadier Posted 22 September , 2003 Author Share Posted 22 September , 2003 As I now found out from another old letter in the archive: Br. Gerold died while trying to save another comrade on Sept. 26th 1917 and was buried on the 29th. Near Koekuithoek, area of Zonnebeke(?). He was reburied at Langemark after the WWI. RIP Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest paddy Posted 26 September , 2003 Share Posted 26 September , 2003 Daniel Sorry for poor attempts at humour on your discussion thread. Lleyton Hewitt had just won the Davis Cup semi final for Australia after being in an almost impossible position. He did so on an important [to me] anniversary. It may be of some interest to you that I have been in Ypres in the footsteps of a relative from the A.I.F. He was killed in the battle preceeding that of Bro Gerold. His name was Schwarer, which would not now be considered a typical Aussie name. I went to Langemarck & other German cemetries & noted many non-Germanic names such as Albert Barton. Strangely enough Australia's first Prime Minister was named Barton. I took photos of some graves and some register pages for comparison with the Australian Rolls.There is a book "German Anzacs" which I noticed since returning home, and that appears to be my next project. ooRoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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