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Remembered Today:

Zeebrugge Raid 1918


domwalsh

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Dom

Family history says great uncle 16853 Thomas Cotterill 3rd RM Batt was on Zeebrugge Raid, do you have any info on him or could you confirm? I have his service record and there is no mention of VC ballot. Also he was wounded in France on 22 Sep 1916 whilst with 'Victory RM Brigade' -any idea what battle that would have been?

Cheers

Dave

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Hi Dave,

I can't comment on the battle in France, I'm afraid. Others would be more expert. But I've checked all my files, muster rolls etc on him and cannot find his name mentioned. I think, therefiore, we can say with some certainity that he didn't take part in the raid, at least not with the 4th battalion landing party. What ship was he serving on at that time? Potentially he could have been on a support vessel.

Best regards,

Dom

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Dave,

The 3rd RM Battalion was raised in Oct/Nov 1916 to replace army units as garrisons on Greek-administered islands in the eastern Aegean. Many of them were based on Lemnos. Men of the battalion manned the Turkish forts (Dardanelles and Bosphorus) after the armistice. The 3RM garrison finally left the islands in June 1921. If he was on the Zeebrugge raid his record would show that he served in 4th RM Battalion (or in the ship's company of one of the ships).

His service in the RM Brigade would have been with the Royal Naval Division. He was not with the RND at Antwerp, may have been at Gallipoli and was with 1/RMLI or 2/RMLI battalions with the BEF.

What RMLI Division was he in? (NOT Chatham - so Plymouth or Portsmouth).

You may find more of his papers at the Fleet Air Arm Museum :-

http://www.fleetairarm.com/pages/research/archivep1.htm

On 22 Sep 1916 both RMLI battalions were out of the line (near Lens) under training. See the battalion war diaries under 'research' at http://www.cwgc.co.uk/ for details.

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Actually, my research suggests that that records of those who served in the Zeebrugge raid vary considerably as to how this is expressed. Sometimes the list of ships/units served does indeed show 4th Battalion, though not all that often in fact. I can't recall ever seeing the ship (Iris/Vindictive) mentioned. Possibly half the records I've seen show participation in the ballot for the VC, and most have a notation: "Took part in Zeebrugge Raid". Some have no mention whatseover, while one or two records of men who were withdrawn just before the raid note that they DID take part! Suffice to say, it's all rather haphazard.

Dom

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Dom, here's one of `some' that I have ;

PALMER John M DSC - Missing Captain RMLI 79D173 N/E Vice Admiral Dover 23.07.18 N/E Operations on Belgian Coast 23.04.18 Zeebrugge & Ostend M in D By his total disregard of his own safety, was of the greatest assistance during the retirement, in helping men to return to the ship. He refused to leave the Mole, while any of his men were left there and it was probably due on this account that he is missing.

Regards Sadsac

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Hi Sadsac....when you say Palmer is one of "some that I have", do you mean you have his medals, or just a note of his award? By the way, one of his men later claimed that Palmer only ended up missing the recall and being taken POW because he was drunk!

many thanks.

Dom

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Hi Dave,

I can't comment on the battle in France, I'm afraid. Others would be more expert. But I've checked all my files, muster rolls etc on him and cannot find his name mentioned. I think, therefiore, we can say with some certainity that he didn't take part in the raid, at least not with the 4th battalion landing party. What ship was he serving on at that time? Potentially he could have been on a support vessel.

Best regards,

Dom

I've had another look at his record and it says (in v. small writing!) that he was in Mudros for 1918, so clearly not on Zeebrugge.

Thanks anyway

Dave

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Dave,

The 3rd RM Battalion was raised in Oct/Nov 1916 to replace army units as garrisons on Greek-administered islands in the eastern Aegean. Many of them were based on Lemnos. Men of the battalion manned the Turkish forts (Dardanelles and Bosphorus) after the armistice. The 3RM garrison finally left the islands in June 1921. If he was on the Zeebrugge raid his record would show that he served in 4th RM Battalion (or in the ship's company of one of the ships).

His service in the RM Brigade would have been with the Royal Naval Division. He was not with the RND at Antwerp, may have been at Gallipoli and was with 1/RMLI or 2/RMLI battalions with the BEF.

What RMLI Division was he in? (NOT Chatham - so Plymouth or Portsmouth).

You may find more of his papers at the Fleet Air Arm Museum :-

http://www.fleetairarm.com/pages/research/archivep1.htm

On 22 Sep 1916 both RMLI battalions were out of the line (near Lens) under training. See the battalion war diaries under 'research' at http://www.cwgc.co.uk/ for details.

Hi Horatio2

Thanks, Ive asked the FAAM if they have his papers. He was in Portsmouth Division. The relevant bits of his service record say he was in 'Victory RM Brigade' 16 Feb 16 to 31 Dec 16, ditto 1 Jan 17 to 13 Jan 17. In the 'Wounds and Hurts, Special Services etc' box it says '26.2.16 to 1.6.16 ME Force' and '7.6.16 to 4.10.16 Ex Force France' So I'm a bit confused as to what unit he was in, could you help?

Dave

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Hi Horatio2

Thanks, Ive asked the FAAM if they have his papers. He was in Portsmouth Division. The relevant bits of his service record say he was in 'Victory RM Brigade' 16 Feb 16 to 31 Dec 16, ditto 1 Jan 17 to 13 Jan 17. In the 'Wounds and Hurts, Special Services etc' box it says '26.2.16 to 1.6.16 ME Force' and '7.6.16 to 4.10.16 Ex Force France' So I'm a bit confused as to what unit he was in, could you help?

Dave

He would have joined one of the RMLI battalions of the RND (probably on the island of Lemnos) in mid February 1916, after the evacuation of Gallipoli, as a reinforcement draft. The RND was then still part of the Mediterranean Expeditionary Force (MEF). When the RND moved to France they became part of the BEF. The actual move to France of the RMLI battalions took place in May 1916, so the 7/6/16 - date is a bit of a mystery. 4/10/16 is probably the date he was moved from France to England as a result of his wounding. It looks as though he remained part of the RND until January 1917.

If the FAAM have his papers (a big 'if' because the Portsmouth papers are split between FAAM and the NA), the key document to look for is his Army Form B.103, which should detail all his moves.

If you continue this thread I suggest you start a new topic under your man's name so as not to clog up domwalsh's topic.

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Dom, not RM BUT ;

McKENZIE (little c to top) Albert Edward AB C/J 31736

GANGES 140620

NEPTUNE 150414

HINDUSTAN 180301

PEMBROKE 1 180424 TO 181103 DD (INFUENZA)

Awarded V.C (by ballot) London Gazette 23 July 1918.

Awarded MiD London Gazette 19 Feb 1919

D.o.B ; 231098 P.o.B ; Bermonsey London. Occ ; Training Ship Boy

Sadsac

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Dom, also;

MCKENZIE Albert E ONJ.31736 Ch Able Seaman RN 79D098 Vindictive Vice Admiral Dover 23.07.18 G Operations on Belgian Coast 23.04.18 (Zeebrugge & Ostend) VC For most conspicuous gallantry. This rating belonged to B Comany of seaman storming party. On the night of the operation he landed on the mole with his machine-gun in the face of great difficulties, and did very good work, using his gun to he utmost advantage. He advanced down the mole with Lieutenant -Commander Harrison, who with most of his party was killed, and accounted for several of the enemy running from a shelter to a destroyer alongside the mole. This very gallant seaman was severely wounded whilst working his gun in an exposed position.

Sadsac

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I have now taken delivery of the Zeebrugge Association's membership lists, which typically list name, address(es), ship served on and, sometimes, rank and date of death. If anyone wants a look up, let me know.

dominic.walsh@ireland.com

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Hi everyone.

I've made this request before, so forgive me for repeating myself. I'm researching the role of the Royal Marines in the Zeebrugge Raid which took place on St George's Day 1918 with a view to writing a book.

Hello Dom,

I'm posting a reply that I have also made to Paul Kendall:

I believe that my great grandfather (Harrison) may have taken part in the Zeebrugge Raid and been seriously wounded on it.

I'm afraid I don't have his full name to hand or know his military designation but my late father told me that he had been a Royal Marine.

He must have been a fairly unusual participant. I suppose he was in his forties at the time of the Raid because his son (my grandfather), an accomplished amateur boxer, worked in Chatham Dockyard and had already served with Keyes on submarines in the Sea of Marmara.

My father was born in 1921 and among his earliest recollections was being taken, carrying a bunch of bananas, to visit his grandfather in the RN hospital.

The family lived in Gillingham and I believe that my great grandfather is buried in Woodlands cemetery. I remember being told that before WW I he had been an instructor for the Tsar's army. He was reputedly something of a PE fanatic and legendary devotee of mustard baths - "hot enough to take your skin off".

I would be interested if you have any record of his participation in the Raid.

Thanks,

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MSH - by `I have more' I meant that I have RMLI officers `gongs' / Rec's. during ZEE raid.

Also, given G.Fathers forename(s) perhaps we could trace BACK for GG.fathers details.

Regards Sadsac

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Yes, a film was made shortly after the raid. Indeed some participants were extras! Only a few excerpts survive at Imperial War Museum, sadly.

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I have now taken delivery of the Zeebrugge Association's membership lists, ......... If anyone wants a look up, let me know.

Dom, Would you look up these two please, one or both may have been members.

Commander Watts and Harold A. Illingworth.

Cheers Terry

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TcM59, is this `your' Watts ??

WATTS Arthur G N/E Lt.Cdr. RNVR 79D224 M.L. 239

Vice Admiral Dover 28.08.18 N/E Ostend 9-10.05.18 DSO

Lt.Cdr. Arthur G.Watts, R.N.V.R.

This officer was in command of M.L. 239, and leader of a smoke screen unit. He led his unit with skill and judgment in a very exposed position, and it was largely due to him that the screen was so extremely successful in his section.

and

WATTS Arthur G N/E Lt.Cdr. RNVR 79D083 H.M.M.L. 239

Vice Admiral Dover Patrol 21.05.18 G

Operations on Belgian Coast 23.04.18 Zeebrugge & Ostend

To be Temporary Lt.Commander R.N.V.R 23.04.18 N/E

Sadsac

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Commander Watts and Harold A. Illingworth.

Terry,

Good to see that you have taken up an interest in Illingworth. He certainly was a member, as I have some of his invitations to Association functions (came with his copy of Carpenter's book). Hope you enjoyed 'Dover Patrol'.

regards

Mick

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Mick, Belated best wishes for yesterday - trust you had a good day. Yes Harold A Illingworth is one of many on my list to follow up especially with his signature in the copy of the first volume of the Bacon's 'Dover Patrol' As you said at the time - sometimes heavy going but a great reference resource.

Sadsac, I'm sure that is him - another small piece in the puzzle of research I've been engaged in for several years - The association with ML 239 was exactly what I'd hoped for.

Many thanks both and

Cheers Terry

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My newly acquired Zeebrugge Association lists show: Harold A Illingworth, Sub Lt RNVR, ML512, living at White House, Penrith, Cumberland. No sign of Watts.

Best wishes,

Dom

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My newly acquired Zeebrugge Association lists show: Harold A Illingworth, Sub Lt RNVR, ML512, living at White House, Penrith, Cumberland.

As I mentioned before, I have several of Illingworth's invitations to Association events (acquired when I bought his copy of Carpenter's book), all sent to the above address. It is now a hotel and I have e-mailed to ask if the present owners know anything or anyone connected with Illingworth, but have had no reply.

Mick

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Hi Mick,

I checked the electoral roll, but no Illingworths in Penrith anymore, sadly. I can't remember (getting decrepit!), did we previously know the ML he was on?

Best of luck,

Dom

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  • 1 year later...

Hello Dom,

I have just commenced tracing the RMLI history of an uncle 'Frederick Pantland' who joined the RMLI and was aboard HMS Highflyer and served in the Persian Gulf 1912-1914 and Dardanelles so I assume he would be discharged around 1924 at which time he is on the Hampstead Electoral Rolls.

His service number was Ch13253 and being an ex Royal Marine myself I know that his division was Chatham.

According to this site; http://www.jhfk.com/ ... then click on ..

'HMS Highflyer' you will see that it confirms that Pte F.Pantland was indeed a medal recipient.

Is it possible that you may have more detail of this person?

Joe (80) in Sydney

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Dom, `Et Al', Zeebrugge Raid award ;

KELLY Wilfred E N/E Lt. RNVR 79D159 H.M.M.L. 528

Vice Admiral Dover 23.07.18 N/E

Operations on Belgian Coast 23.04.18

Zeebrugge & Ostend Mentioned in Despatches

N/E

Regards Sadsac

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