2nd Lt Aylmer Templar Wales

[CarylW]

I have a letter from 2nd Lt Aylmer Templar Wales South African Infantry

"C" Coy. 2nd Regt. written from 'Northern France' to his mother, dated 5th of July 1916, 12 days before he died

The address on the envelope matches the CWGC next of kin address, and it is signed Aylmer

Ideally I'd like to try to reunite this letter with family members - if there are any left that is, may be from a house clearance

It's extremely sad - he talks of missing home cooking etc

After I read it and found out that he had died shortly after, it upset me for a long while and I couldn't get him out of my mind and couldn't even post the details here. I have a son around the same age (22) and I could imagine what his poor mother went through and family members.

Have no idea why the letter was in Britain, maybe they moved here after his death. His father was Lt. Col. A. T. G. Wales

Also on the CWGC is an Alfred Wales, listed on CWGC as South African also whose next of kin were from near my neck of the woods New Brighton Wirral, but it wasn't sold locally

Could anyone tell me anthing more about this soldier please?

WALES, AYLMER TEMPLER

Initials: A T

Nationality: South African

Rank: Second Lieutenant

Regiment: South African Infantry

Unit Text: "C" Coy. 2nd Regt.

Age: 22

Date of Death: 17/07/1916

Additional information: Son of Lt. Col. A. T. G. Wales and M. A. C. Wales, of 71, Pietermaritz St., Pietermaritzburg, Natal. Commissioned on the field.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: II. B. 15.

Cemetery: DIVE COPSE BRITISH CEMETERY, SAILLY-LE-SEC

Is there any memorial site for South Africans maybe in his home area of Pietermaritzburg Natal who would like the extract of the letter? Anyone researching these soldiers?

I will post the extract here, just not now

Caryl

[Guest geoff501]

I will post the extract here, just not now

Caryl

Caryl, sounds like The South African Infantry at Delville Wood. I have a SAI man on my local memorial.

Hope you can post an extract sometime.

Try this link:

http://marillierfamily.homedns.org/FamilyM...lvilleWood.html

[CarylW]

Geoff

Many thanks for that. I was hoping that someone could tell me where he would have been and what action was taking place - Delville Wood, I've edited the title of my first post so that anyone searching for Delville Wood in titles can find it

I see that the cemetery Dive Copse where he is buried "was a small wood close by, under the Bray-Corbie road, named after the officer commanding this station. Plots I and II were filled with burials from these medical units between July and September 1916"

Looking at the letter again it's possible that the date he wrote it was the 13th, not the 15th, that part is quite faint

Disturbing and upsetting but there are what appear to be bloodstains on the envelope, so wondering if this letter could have been on him when he was wounded and posted afterwards. Unless the stains happened at another time

Can only imagine what his poor mother felt, and his family. His father, a Lt Col. may have been away serving

We are hoping to visit the Battlefields and cemeteries again soon so will try to pay a visit to his grave

I will post the extract some time

Caryl

[Robert Dunlop]

Second Lieutenant Wales is also listed in Ian Uys's book 'Rollcall: The Delville Wood Story'. The other details are consistent with the information you have provided. This confirms his having died in the terrible battle involving the South African Brigade. Rollcall is a very powerful, well-researched account. The memorial in Delville Wood is well worth a look when you visit.

Robert

[CarylW]

Robert

Thanks for that. I'll try to get hold of copy of the book

Caryl

[Kathie]

I am researching SA soldiers in the SAI and elsewhere.

Wales's records would be in the SA Defence Force archvies in Pretoria - I dont know if you would want to try and get someone to access them for you. Unfortunately cannot but I do know that there are some researchers who go and make copies etc.

As far as his family is concerned - I will see if I can access any member of the Wales family in Natal which is the province where Pietermaritzburg is.

Kathie

[Kathie]

I have checked with telephone enquiries. No 'Wales' family listed in Pietermartizburg.

Dont think I can take it further. Sorry.

Kathie

[CarylW]

Many thanks Kathie

This is the letter he wrote:

"Dearest mums

I am afraid my last letter was just a short scrawl but one can't say much as to what is happening at the present time but I think things are pretty well coming to a head. We have had some very wet weather and it was not too pleasant as it was very crowded in the huts and dugouts so the majority of us sleep out with only a waterproof and overcoat but the weather is getting much warmer now thank goodness.

Where we are there is a tame magpie, it came and woke our fellows up by climbing over them swearing. I think it has been learning English from the troops here.

Douglas has been detached for some special duty and is not with the coy at present but will be back later. I am back to the coy also. I don't think I am sorry either.

I suppose you are getting all the news in the papers, we don't know much were we are except when we get papers over, they usually a few days late. I got a letter from Aunt Louisa the other day but could not make much out of it as her handwriting is "some". I am glad the relations made it out of the north sea quite safely, both Douglases were in it I believe. It has just struck me that I would like a spoon pudding with home made gooseberry jam and custard for dinner today instead of bully beef biscuits and tea. I am afraid there is nothing more to say so will close now

Lots of love and kisses to all at home from your loving son

Aylmer"

Caryl

[Guest geoff501]

Thanks for that. I'll try to get hold of copy of the book

Might be quite expensive, I looked last year and found one at around £60 !

The man I was researching, Pte. Bell is still buried in a shell hole near the first aid post. I took me a year to find his details since the CWGC info had a Natal address, however it looks like his father emigrated to SA after his son joined the SAI. I think some British soldiers were in this infantry, have you tried a UK census search - might explain why the letter is over here. The Nationality given in the CWGC list is that of the unit, not the man.

[CarylW]

Geoff

Thanks

The next of kin on CWGC plus the address on the envelope are Lt A T Wales family living in Natal, so it seems likely that he was South African? but I will look in the 1901 to see if the family were here at that time

I was just searching the BT.com phone book on line, quite a few came up with the surname Wales for different areas of the UK, but three in particular are for the Wirral and one in Liverpool. I'll write to them. They may be connected to the other A Wales found in CWGC whose next of kin lived in Wirral, but whose nationality is given on CWGC as South African - but if you say the nationality given on CWGC is that of the unit then maybe they are not related

Caryl

[Guest geoff501]

The next of kin on CWGC plus the address on the envelope are Lt A T Wales family living in Natal, so it seems likely that he was South African? but I will look in the 1901 to see if the family were here at that time

CWGC data was added some time after, folks could have moved, but the Natal addressed envelope would seem to be conclusive.

nationality is given on CWGC as South African - but if you say the nationality given on CWGC is that of the unit then maybe they are not related

If you look at the title of the drop-down on the CWGC website it is headed nationality of unit.

Robert - does the Uys book indicate how many British soldiers were in the SAI . I'm still puzzled how my Worcestershire soldier came to be there. He may have transferred from a Worcs. Bn. but this seemed to have happen before the family emigrated.

[CarylW]

Geoff

I see what you mean now about nationality. You must excuse me - takes a while for the penny to drop!

Re the book, I'll keep a look out at abe books etc for a copy.

If anyone comes across any mention of Lt Aylmer Templar's father Lt Col. Wales, please let me know. Maybe also SA Infantry?

Any thoughts on who the 'Douglas' he referred to could be? maybe a friend from home, but could also be a relation?

Thank you

Caryl

[Guest]

I have checked with telephone enquiries. No 'Wales' family listed in Pietermartizburg.

Dont think I can take it further. Sorry.

Kathie

nope, we left Martizburg and moved up to Pretoria but we were definitely in Pietermaritzburg. In fact, two Wales brothers married two Martiz daughters so we were very much part of Pietermaritzburg at one point.

T

[Guest]

Geoff

...Any thoughts on who the 'Douglas' he referred to could be? maybe a friend from home, but could also be a relation?...

chances are they were Wales' too. Douglas is one of the most common Wales family names. I think the Aunt Louisa was Louisa Diana Wales, married to William Wales. William's younger brother was Captain Douglas Wales. Although there was another Louisa who had a son John Douglas Wales-Rogers, born 31 January 1890 (he would have been 26 in 1916). Louis' sister, Maggie had a son Arthur Douglas. They were in SA but returned to England in 1889 When her husband Arthur died of pneumonia. There's probably a Douglas in every generation in every branch of the family tree so i'll do some research if its at all interesting?

[CarylW]

Hi Templar

I know you have just contacted me about this letter asking me to send you a scan. I'll do better than that and send you the letter itself, if you would like it, since you are a member of Aylmer Templar Wales family

I'm SO pleased a member of the Wales family has turned up. Funnily enough I was thinking about the letter recently and wondered if I should pass it on to a South African War graves memorial, or to the SA archives, since a year has passed since I posted about the letter here on the forum (March 2006)

We are moving house soon and have packed away a lot of items, I was hoping I could find the letter and luckily I have been able to. If you send me your address I'll post it off to you

Here's a scan of the letter

Caryl

[Guest]

<snip>

Hi Templar

I know you have just e-mailed me about this letter asking me to send you a scan. I'll do better than that and send you the letter itself, if you would like it,

</snip>

I have mailed you directly but i feel i should thank you 'publicly' too. I think it's astounding that the letter has survived this long and thank you so much for taking care of it and offering to send it. I've already mailed the rest of the family with the good news.

Thanks again.

Templar

[CarylW]

Templar

Posted it off to you today

I'm so pleased the letter will be going home.

Caryl

[Fat Frank]

I have this reference from "Delville Wood, Uys, 1983" pg 144, para 3

"Second-lieutenant AT Wales, 23 (not 22 as some reports say, including Uys's book, Roll Call) was the son of Col Wales VD, of Pretoria. After schooling at Pietermartizburg he worked at the Premier Mine. Wales joined the Natal Light Horse then transferred to the NMR (Natal Mounted Rifles) for service in SWA (German South West Africa, now Namibia). He joined 2SAI as a lance-corporal and served in Egypt. He had just been commissioned when he was mortally wounded at Delville Wood and died on 17 July 1916."

Thank you for efforts in returning the letter.

[Fat Frank]

templarwales, Where are you based? I would love to get a copy of the letter

[CarylW]

Frank

Thank you for the reference

As far as I know member templarwales is not an active member of the forum, he only made three posts, all in this thread

You could try e-mailing him via the forum. I've lost track of his current e-mail address

I can let you have a much larger scanned copy of the actual letter posted above if that is of any use to you? I still have it on file luckily

Caryl

[Guest gynoncmm]

It was wonderful to see the letter. Aylmer Wales was my great uncle, the brother of my grandmother, Leila Sybil Wales. I wonder if receiving the letter would have made a difference to my great-great grandparents. Apparently his mother Maria Aletta Carolina Wales never recovered from his death; she became involved in spiritualism and was constantly at seances to try to contact him. His father Col. Archibald Templar Gordon Wales was heartbroken, and was not able to console his mother. After all these years the house in Pietermaritzburg is no longer there. Aylmer attended Pietermaritzburg College, an exclusive private school for boys in Pietermaritzburg, and his name is on the war memorial there. His photograph is attached to this post.

I don't know Templer Wales, but would love to get in touch if anyone knows how to find him. We have some active family research going on, including the rest of the Wales family in South Africa, who are more distantly related through ATG Wales's brother.

[CarylW]

Many thanks for the extra information and photograph for 2nd Lt. Aylmer Templar Wales. I've never forgotten him. How sad about his parents, never stopped grieving for their son, like so many. Discovering the identity of the sender of the letter, his age and his fate in Delville Wood not long after the letter had been sent (and it's possible the letter addressed to his mother did not reach her until after the news of his death) really had a profound effect on me and I'm hoping one day to visit his grave there.

It was a relief to be able to pass the letter back to a family member. I'll have to track down his e-mail address. It may be in a folder in an old e-mail account of mine

I'll get back to you

Caryl

[Guest gynoncmm]

Thank you for contacting Templar Wales; I believe he is trying to PM me but I do not seem to have privileges to answer back at present. Perhaps I have not been on the site long enough or posted sufficiently. In any case I can be contacted at gynoncmm at hotmail dot com; no spaces etc.

How exciting to see such a letter; it is so poignant that it almost breaks my heart. I think I am going to make spoon pudding and custard today, will have to make do with store-bought gooseberry jam, however.

Sybilann

[CarylW]

Thank you for contacting Templar Wales; I believe he is trying to PM me but I do not seem to have privileges to answer back at present. Perhaps I have not been on the site long enough or posted sufficiently. In any case I can be contacted at gynoncmm at hotmail dot com; no spaces etc.

How exciting to see such a letter; it is so poignant that it almost breaks my heart. I think I am going to make spoon pudding and custard today, will have to make do with store-bought gooseberry jam, however.

Sybilann

Sybilann, a couple more posts and you'll be able to PM other members and also receive PM's. I think newer members need to have five posts in total

Caryl