Lt. I. B. Hart-Davies (RFC)

[Tom Morgan]

Lieut. Ivan Beauclerk Hart-Davies, Royal Flying Corps, was killed on 27.7.17 and is buried in Warwickshire. Does anyone know how he came to be killed? I assume it may have been a crash during a training flight in the UK. I also think he was a pilot rather than an observer, but can anyone confirm this?

(As I. B. Hart-Davies, insurance-broker from Rugby, this officer was an important pre-war pioneer motorcyclist. Among other achievements he secured the John O'Groats to Land's End record covering the 880 miles in 33 hrs 22 min in 1909, riding a Triumph machine. Not bad going considering the bike had direct permanent belt drive which couldn't be disengaged - if the engine was running, the back wheel was going round. If you brake to a halt, the engine stops. No clutch, no gears. No decent roads either.)

Tom

[Dolphin]

Lt I B Hart-Davies, a pilot from No 35 Training Squadron RFC, was killed while flying, ie he met his fate in an accident, in Bristol F2B A7103. He is buried in Southam, Warwickshire. His observer, 2Lt A D Miller, was injured in the accident.

I hope this helps.

[Guest Pete Wood]

What I find most interesting is that this officer was 41 years of age when he crashed.

I seem to remember that there were restrictions, by this stage of the war - especially for so junior an officer. So what's the story here....?

He was surely too old to fly in combat, so did the army have another role in mind for this man...?

Does the fact that he was at 35 TS mean that he was an instructor, or was he learning to fly - and does that mean that Miller was an observer, or a trainee pilot??

I am very curious.....

[Tom Morgan]

What I find most interesting is that this officer was 41 years of age when he crashed.

I seem to remember that there were restrictions, by this stage of the war - especially for so junior an officer. So what's the story here....?

<SNIP>

I am very curious.....

Yes - there are two main mysteries about this man. Dolphin has helped clear up one of them, and now Racing Teapots has noticed a third - his age, given that he was in the Royal Flying Corps.

According to motorcycle lore, I. B. Hart-Davies was killed in a flying accident after he'd taken up flying with a view to setting another John O' Groats - Land's End record by making the trip by air. It came as a surprise to learn (yesterday) that he was in the RFC at the time. No motorcycling writer has ever mentioned this before.

Surely he wasn't allowed to join the RFC at the age of 41 just to learn to fly so he could make a record-setting attempt??

Anyway - here he is in 1911 with another Triumph machine after he had reduced the JOGLE record to 29 hours, 12 minutes.

Tom

[Guest Pete Wood]

If you look on WW1 Photos website, they have a photo and obituary for your man.

The site implies that he was with 48 Sqn, which was the first Brisfit squadron.

Now here's where it gets a bit more curious, according to Henshaw, a 2Lt HR Hart-Davies, of 48 Sqn(!!) was an observer in Bristol F2b A7171, which was shot down on the 19th August 1917, by Ltn Brachwitz of Ja 17. The Bristol pilot, 2Lt R Dutton was killed, but this Hart-Davies was made PoW.

What's even more amusing is that if you do a search on the web, for your man, on The Classic Racer website it says that IR Hart-Davies was the well known motorcycle journalist Ixion.

If the above website is correct, why is there An Australian Motorcycle website which states that Ixion was testing a Norton in 1920 - and that his career lasted until the 1950s??

On another website, Ixion is said to be a 'man of the church.' Now there was a vicar called David Ephraim Hart-Davies who was also an author in the 1930s. Was he (also??) Ixion....?

You've also got some relatives, living today who should be easy to track down; Duff Hart-Davies, a church warden, and his TV presenter brother Adam (best know for 'What did the Victorians Do For Us?' and some extremely loud shirts).

[Tom Morgan]

Curiouser and curiouser!

Now - I can tell you all about "Ixion" 'cos he's a hero of mine.

Ivan Beauclerk Hart-Davies wasn't the great "Ixion" although many sources say he was. Ixion was a clergyman, Canon Basil H. Davies. My original question about I. B. Hart-Davies was to clarify how he was killed if I could, because I'm writing an article about Ixion! Talk about things coming full circle!

Somewhere along the line the assumption was made that I. B. Hart-Davies's second name was "Basil" and that he was Ixion. This case of mistaken identity has grown and grown over the years and many writers pass on the error without checking. Both men were prominent and well-known pioneer motorcyclists.

Many people who mention Ixion are repeating what they have read about him, without having read his stuff, and the "Classic Racer" website is guilty of this. There can be no doubt that "Ixion" wasn't I. B. Hart-Davies because Ixion, in his classic book "Motor Cycle Cavalcade" (1950) refers to IBH-D a lot and actually mentions his death in that flying accident!

Basil H. Davies (Ixion) was still writing in "The Motor-Cycle" well into the 1950s and died in 1961.

BUT....... I have a picture of Ixion (according to the caption) in an officer's uniform sitting astride an ABC motorcycle supposedly taken "Prior to demob from the RFC in 1919." (I know.... I know.......) So this picture could be Basil H. Davies (Ixion) and I am also looking for evidence that HE was in the army. Or it could be Ivan Beauclerk Hart-Davies and the date is wrong and the caption-writer is also labouring under a misconception as to who "Ixion" was!

I think the "What the Victorians Did for Us" man is Adam Hart-Davis and not Hart Davies.

Anyone have any ideas what I. B. Hart-Davies was doing in the RFC at the age of 41?

Or.... whether there was ever another officer called Basil H. Davies in the RFC??

Phew.

Tom

[Guest Pete Wood]

My curiousity aroused, I have taken the liberty of posting the question on the Aerodrome Forum.

You can see it by Clicking on The Aerodrome Posting for Hart-Davies

[Tom Morgan]

Thanks for that, RT. I'll follow the subject on the "Aerodrome" forum with great interest.

Tom

[MattyBoy]

In the interest of those who may still be checking this post:

The book 'History Of British Aviation 1908-1914' by R. Dallas-Brett has a listing of all those British people who qualified as pilots in the UK, France & America between 1909 & WW1.

There is a Mr. I. B. Hart-Davies who received license number 643 dated 06 October 1913. He qualified at the Grahame-White school at Hendon.

He is also in the London Gazette as being on probation in the R.F.C. from April 1916. (LG 29552, 18-April-1916).

Regards

Matt.

[christine liava'a]

I have a Charles Henry Hart-Davis who was

Secretary to the High Commissioner of the Western Pacific, served in some regiment of the British Army and was mentioned in despatches at Salonica.

After the war he was transferred to Cyprus

Does anyone know anything about him?

[Guest Simon Bull]

Is this chap related to the Adam Hart-Davies who presents science programmes on television?

[Hambo]

I am doing some research on this man and this is all I have so far.

Hart-Davies Ivan Beauclerk Lieutenant

Royal Flying Corps

Died on the 27th of July 1917 aged 41

He was born at Huntingdon the son of John and Florence Hart-Davies

He is buried at Southam (St James) Churchyard, Warwickshire

I am assuming he was probably killed in a training accident given that he is buried at home but he looks a little old and of a relatively junior rank given his age I imagine it's possible it could be another cause

Any help / ideas whould be very helpful

Many thanks Hambo

[Dolphin]

Hambo

Lt I B Hart-Davies of No 35 Training Squadron RFC was killed in an accident while flying Bristol F2B A7103 on 27 July 1917. His observer, 2Lt A D Miller, was injured.

In Airmen Died, his age is shown as 39.

I hope that this helps.

Gareth

[Starlight]

Hi,

Chris Hobson's Airmen Died in the Great War has the following:

Lt Ivan Beauclerc Hart-Davies of 35 Training squadron, native of Rugby. Died aged 39 in an accident (KWF) 27/07/17 flying a Bristol Fighter F2B Number A7103. His observer 2nd Lt A D Miller was injured in the accident.

Regards

Steve

Sorry Gareth, I just noticed that you had already responded.

Regards

Steve

[Coldstreamer]

From the times aug 7 , 1917

seems he had a need for speed

[Hambo]

Thanks for the information, excellent obit from the Times

Regards Hambo

[Coldstreamer]

always easier to find when they have less common names - mind you I found a J Brown I was looking for by accident in the times the other day

[MattyBoy]

Hi Hambo,

I. B. Hart-Davies was awarded Royal Aero Club certificate No. 643 on 06/10/1913.

[Hambo]

Thanks for the extra detail, all adds to the picture of the man. Sounds like quite a character

[Tom Morgan]

Ivan Hart-Davies was a colossal figure in the early history of motorcycling, a specialist in long-distance runs and record-breaking endurance rides.

The great motorcycling journalist "Ixion" (Canon Basil H. Davis) had this to say about him:

The late Ivan B. Hart-Davies, killed in a flying crash at Northolt during the war, was an extraordinary rider. As a speedster he was not in the first class, and could never have accomplished great things in the T.T. or on the track. But his physical stamina was colossal, and he could probably make hacks of most racing men in sustained speed-work on the road. He liked nothing better than an all-day scrap with two or three fast men who fancied their corner-work. He might be beaten when the party were fresh, but towards the end of such an outing he would generally be miles an hour faster than the rest of the crowd, for he never tired.

He relied on amateur assistance, and had plenty of sporting friends who provided him with first-class organization on his record rides. By this time it had become customary for a record-breaker to employ guides and followers. The rider no longer troubled to learn the whole of the route, whilst time did not permit him to consult maps. Over every tricky section the rider would be guided by fast men who knew the roads of the locality perfectly; and behind him would be two or three others, ready to lend a hand in tyre repairs, or to go in front if the guide tired or had trouble with his machine. The guide would wear a white coat to facilitate following in the dark.

Hart-Davies left Groats at 3 a.m. on a Monday, and checked into Lands End at 12.22 p.m. on Tuesday - a total of 33 hrs. 22 min. His single-geared Triumph weighed 196 lbs., with pedalling gear and a specially large fuel tank. He used magneto ignition, and a Stanley rubber belt.

Here's a photo of him with his JOGLE Triumph.

Tom

[roy litchfield]

Hello Hambo,

Notice your man was born Huntingdon. Try a google on "Portholme Meadow" which is beside the river Ouse between Godmanchester and Huntingdon and is one of the largest water meadows in England.

During the Great War it was the site of 59th. Training Depot Station, RFC/RAF, but before that it was one of the places where pioneering flights were made during the early 1900's. Perhaps this is where your officer had his first experience of seeing early powered flight.

Best wishes Roy (The avatar is the capbadge of the Hunts. Cyclist Bn.)

[Hambo]

Tom and Roy

Thankyou both very much. To have a picture is a tremendous bonus.

Thanks for your time and trouble, I'll check out the google suggestion as well

Best regards Hambo

[christine liava'a]

There was a previous thread about him; here

 

 

[Hambo]

Thanks for the connection to the previous thread. you never what'll turn up on the forum

[Guest bruce and vin]

A quick question to the researcher, how far back and how deep into the family past have you gone, I am the great grandson of Arnold Sutton Hart-Davies and trying to find out more of our family history. Any info you have will be most gratefully accepted. My grandfather was the archbishop of Carlisle some years back.