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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Wreckage washed up on British shores


swizz

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I am a total novice when it comes to naval matters, so perhaps this is a question with a very obvious answer, but when wreckage was washed up on British shores, who owned it? Did it belong to whoever found it, or did it automatically belong to the state - a kind of 'treasure trove' idea?

I am interested in what happened to the wreckage of ships which were, say, torpedoed or lost in some other way off the British coast.

Swizz

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Officially, the Queen/The Crown Estate owns all Britain's Coastline. I'm no expert when it comes to laws of salvage etc, but I would think the Queen would technically have first dibs on any flotsam and jetsum

doogal

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I think you are probably right Doogal although Official Salvagers may have an interest also the Receiver of Wrecks.Was there not a bit of a do a couple of years ago when a cargo of wood was washed ashore and the locals got into trouble for using it to make sheds,etc.

I know its the wrong War but was not the Book and Film "Whisky Galore" based on fact?I can also recall my Mother talking about Butter being washed ashore from a Vessel off Dundee during WW2 and it being used for domestic consumption.

George

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Thanks doogal, I had no idea that the Queen owned the coastline! I thought the monarch might have a claim on items which were washed up there though.

Swizz

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Sorry dycer I think you must have posted while I was writing my first reply! I have never read Whiskey Galore but perhaps I should get hold of a copy! The story about the butter is exactly the sort of thing I'm interested in, since presumably a lot of the things which were washed up would have been useful to local people.

Perhaps there was a value restriction on what should be declared? Like with the treasure trove where only items worth over a certain amount have to be turned over the state.

Swizz

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Sorry dycer I think you must have posted while I was writing my first reply! I have never read Whiskey Galore but perhaps I should get hold of a copy! The story about the butter is exactly the sort of thing I'm interested in, since presumably a lot of the things which were washed up would have been useful to local people.

Perhaps there was a value restriction on what should be declared? Like with the treasure trove where only items worth over a certain amount have to be turned over the state.

Swizz

As I understand it, there are quite complicated laws on who owns what with regard to the shore. Flotsam I think is wreckage which accidentally gets into the water and comes ashore. This belongs to the Crown. Jetsam is thrown overboard ( it has been jettisoned), and the finder has some rights on it. This is almost certainly wrong in detail but sort of gives you an idea.

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thanks truthergw. This may be more complicated than I had anticipated. I take it that the wreckage of a ship or items from a wrecked ship would count as flotsam since it was not jettisoned on purpose?

Swizz

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Swizz,

Whisky Galore by Compton McKenzie.

During WW2 an Island off the West Coast of Scotland ran out of Whisky.A Boat carrying Whisky ran aground.The story is the the lengths the Authority's go to retrieve the Whisky and the Islanders go to ensure they hang on to it :lol:

It is based on a true story as some divers retrieved unopened bottles from the wreck quite recently.

George

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Years ago I was on a Carribean sailship cruise, and met an interesting chap, a salvage captain out of Florida, he had about three ships, tugs, etc. He was in an excessively good mood. He had just made a "find". One day he got a call from the Coast Guard; they had seen something that was a hazard to navigation. He steamed out and found the front few feet of the bow of a large yacht sticking out of the water, the ship was 90% under-water, sunk vertically, bow bobbing up and down. He quickly made fast to it and radioed for the rest of his little fleet, and they sailed out and helped him salvage the ship.

The owner reported that the ship sunk under him and he barely got away.

When on the surface the salvage guy went thru the ship with the Coast Guard, and, lo and behold, the ship's scuttlecock had been opened; the owner had purposefully sunk it for insurance purposes, and some air in the bow kept it from sinking entirely. The ship was his! Of course it had to be rehabilitated, but it had been underwater say only a day, and it certainly was quite a find.

Hence the happy guy and spouse on a great cruise. When we came to one island the ship's captain let the guy helm the ship in. It was, if memory serves, a 365' square-rigged ship, with the tallest masts in the world, not a little tub. Quite a mark of respect.

A bit OT, but a great tale of an aquatic find, and some rules of salvage.

Bob Lembke

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Swizz,

Whisky Galore by Compton McKenzie.

During WW2 an Island off the West Coast of Scotland ran out of Whisky.A Boat carrying Whisky ran aground.The story is the the lengths the Authority's go to retrieve the Whisky and the Islanders go to ensure they hang on to it :lol:

It is based on a true story as some divers retrieved unopened bottles from the wreck quite recently.

George

Hi George, as the story shows, The islanders were breaking the law. They were in fact " wrecking" . Removing the cargo from a wrecked vessel. This belongs to the owners or insurers. Great book and film. As an idea of just how baroque this flotsam thing can get, whales and sturgeons washed up belong to the crown.

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So far as I remember the law relating to wreckage depends on it's location on the beach. If I recall correctly if it is recovered below the mean high tide mark it belongs to the person who recovered it, if it is washed up above the mean high tide mark it belongs to the Crown? Hence low tide was harvest time for wreckers.

When a timber ship had its cargo of cut timber planks washed overboard during a storm off Hastings a few years ago, the next morning the beach was crawling with people trying to salvage it, and public warnings were given out that taking it from the beach above mean high tide level was an offence and those doing it could face prosecution although I didn't hear of any arrests - and most of it had gone by then!. During the weeks which followed a lot of new garden sheds seemed to spring up all over the town:)

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Swizz,

Whisky Galore by Compton McKenzie.

During WW2 an Island off the West Coast of Scotland ran out of Whisky.A Boat carrying Whisky ran aground.The story is the the lengths the Authority's go to retrieve the Whisky and the Islanders go to ensure they hang on to it :lol:

It is based on a true story as some divers retrieved unopened bottles from the wreck quite recently.

George

There is a book about the real life incident that Whisky Galore is based upon. It was the SS Politician which came to grief off the Scottish Island of Eriskay in 1941.

http://www.longitudebooks.com/find/p/3637/mcms.html

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Thanks for all this information - clearly there is more to this question than I had thought! I am interested in the aftermath of a sinking off the Irish coast when a lot of items - pieces of wood, life jackets and even a card table - were washed up on the shore. I'm going to go back to the newspapers and look into it a bit more. Thanks again to everyone for their responses!

Swizz

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