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German Unit Histories


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Thanks so much Patrick!

I will follow up with details of attacks/counter attacks in Hallu, but in the meantime...

Exact location where the Hallu Eight were found: 49.79172, 2.79414

Exact location of closest body recovered in 1919: 49.7915, 2.793

The Unidentified Canadian Soldier above was buried in Plot III Row F Grave 9 at Fouquescourt British Cemetery.

I mention this soldier above because he was only 83 meters from the location of the Hallu Eight - which reinforces my theory that the cross(es) over the graves which were written in German, were destroyed/removed before the exhumation parties went through the area in 1919. Not unheard of as families returned to their homes, given their resentment of German occupation.

Hoping we will find something in diaries of the burial units - thanks so much for looking!

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So checking and cross reading all histories I have at my hands it's almost certain for me that those burials had to be done by the units backing the 1 st line of KB Infantry Leib Regiment (I Btn KB Inf Leib was in 1st line). Using the grave Locations you can find out (using Jacks Map & the Units histories) that the Location is defenitively behind the line of the I Btn KB Inf Leib. Using a 1916 map from McMaster University (showing 2 lines of trenches in the burial area) and the both KB Inf Leib history you can identify that exactly this area was manned as second line of depth defence by 10th Company KB Inf Leib on 12/13th August and later (as of 13th) by full III Btn KB Inf Leib.

Nontheless I haven't found any written evidence saying the the KB Inf Leib a) made canadian burials B) any burials (but the had numerous losses during the attack on Hallu so there have been losses and therefor burials)

One thing in particual I found was through the histories of KB Inf Leib , KB Jäger Reg 1 , Jäger Reg 2 , RIR 65 and IR 95 that These Units been in (high) alert for a Counter attack especially the Jäger Reg 1 and the KB Inf Leib. According to this i have some doubts that those combat Bataillons that seen Action before, waiting for a Counter attack and improving the trenches also digging those 90+ german graves (KB Inf Leib only) including the 8+1 canadian ones. Its a realtively high number for combat ready troops at my guess.

Next things to search :

Finding the original grave Locations of the fallen bavarians of KB Inf Leib during Hallu attack ( i assume that they should have been buried by the same guys live the canadians)

-> Missing an idea at the Moment how to do that

Contact the Kriegsarchive at München for the original war diaries of KB Inf Leib (should have survived the war because stored at munich) and have a look at them, maybe there's something inside.

-> I am looking through the catalogue right now.

Patrick

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Update

Got several grave Locations for the dead of 11th/12th of KB Inf Leib Regiment. Currently mapping them and rebuilding the street grid with GE. Come back with it when done.

Patrick

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Ok here we go

I found out that the Canadian graves the 8+1 are almost identical with several grave Locations from 1 / KB Inf Leib. Several Deads are localized in their grave Location as

"am Ortsrand von Hallu 80 m südlich der Straße und 40 m westlich des östlichen Ortsrands"

or in english :

80m south of the street Hallu - Punchy , 40 m west of eastern Limits Hallu. On the maps (i will add as soon as i found out how !) this is the Yellow encircled area. The red star Icons display the canadians and the yellow ones represent Germans (but not exact Locations but there are numerous graves named there in that area !) There seemed to be some sort of cemetery there !

So there's a significant identity to german grave/burial Locations of the same date .... should be almost certain that the same unit that buried the Germans also buried the canadians

.

Pictures/Map update

blue Roads : Still existing roads

light blue Roads : Reconstructed roads due to still visible signs on map and/or Jacks map

yellow pointers with stars = german described grave Locations as of German Regimental Stammrollen

red pointers with stars = canadian grave as of given coordinates

yellow Pins = geographical Points / designations

green Pins = Churches of Hallu + Punchy

violet Pins = attack starting Points of the KB Inf Leib companies

http://www.military-books.lima-city.de/gwf/hallu01.jpg

http://www.military-books.lima-city.de/gwf/hallu02.jpg

http://www.military-books.lima-city.de/gwf/hallu03.jpg

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Great work Patrick!

This is very exciting...we are getting so close to finding the corroborating evidence we need.

Allow me to review how many men we are looking for...

  • The personal letter from 1919 referred to the cross written in German, which revealed Lt Clifford Abram Neelands was referred to as body No. 13.
  • We know 35 Winnipeg Grenadiers were missing in Hallu on Aug 11/12 1918.
  • Eight of those 35 have been found and re-buried at Caix British Cemetery.
  • We can infer there are at least 5 more Canadians buried in the vicinity (No. 13 - 8 bodies found).
  • That leaves us with 35-8=27 more bodies which may have been buried by the Germans.

So, we are looking for 5 to 27 more Canadians in this area, AND an unknown number of German soldiers.

Back to the attacks/counterattacks at Hallu as promised:

Aug 10: In taking the village of Hallu, troops of the Canadian Corps advance furthest east than any formation of the British Fourth Army, under whom the Canadian Corps is fighting.

Aug 11: During the previous night and in the morning, troops of the Canadian Corps beat off three German counterattacks on Hallu, but as no further advance is planned, and being in an exposed position, they withdraw to a consolidated line.

Aug 12: During the 12th, 13th and 14th, the troops of the Canadian Corps are engaged in clearing the maze of enemy trenches between the villages of Fouquescourt and Parvillers.

Aug 13: In patrol encounters and local trench fighting, troops of the Canadian Corps slowly push forward to close in on the village of Parvillers.

Aug 14: Troops of the Canadian Corps gain entry into Parvillers, but cannot occupy the village due to a violent German counterattack.

Aug 15: Parvillers is finally secured and held against counterattack by troops of the Canadian Corps. Other troops enter Damery, which, against shelling and counterattack, they are able to hold, taking some 200 prisoners.

See: http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/remembrance/history/first-world-war/last-hundred-days?filter=range&start=1

Thanks so much for this, Patrick - I would never have been able to accomplish what you have done.

EDIT: Sorry, Patrick...I forgot you need to be a member of the CEFSG to view some topics and photos. It would be great to have you as a member there - you would be a great resource for us. You can sign up at http://cefresearch.ca/phpBB3/ Canadian Force Expeditionary Study Group (CEFSG) has many members also from the Great War Forum.

This is our Hallu Eight thread: Hallu Eight

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Most fascinating Patrick!

There are some IWM trench maps I put up on the CEFSG site if those would assist. This is where they start:

http://cefresearch.ca/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=93174#p93174

If you need any others (or details) just let me know.

Beifall aus Kanada

Richard

Updated June 10th:

Would it be possible for you to send me your KMZ file so I can import the coordinates from your GE map? I would like to see those relative to the trench locations shown in the overlay. I will send you a PM with my e-mail address.

ohp68o15wyuithl6g.jpg

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  • 1 month later...

Hello

 

I 'm looking for informations about Bayerische Fussartillerie-Batterie 617 . This unit stays in Liévin (north of France ) in 1916/1917 ?   

 

Best regards

 

Bruno  

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Hello Bruno!

The bav. Fußart.Bttr.617 was set-up in november 1915 by Ers.Btl./bayer.3.Fußart.Rgt. in Straßburg.

It changed its name in november 1916 into 4./bayer.Fußart.Btl.16

End of 1915 it was in exercising in Straßburg (140 men, 9 horses).

In december 1915 they came to Thorn (East-Prussia), where they got their guns. (Russian 10cm canons)

In january 1916 they were transfered to France (Hénin-Liétard)

Battles:

since january 1916 in 18th Res.Div.. they stood near Cité de Riaumont near Lens. January/february Artois and Neuville St. Vaast.

In that time it was near Liévin.

In may and june it fought near Givenchy-en-Gohelle.

When it changed it name into 4./16 they stil stayed in Liévin until april 1917. The  they were west of Sallaumines

(Source:Waffengedenkbuch der königl. bayer. schweren Artillerie)

http://www.lovettartillery.com/Russian_107mm.htm

 

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4 hours ago, Prussian said:

Hello Bruno!

The bav. Fußart.Bttr.617 was set-up in november 1915 by Ers.Btl./bayer.3.Fußart.Rgt. in Straßburg.

It changed its name in november 1916 into 4./bayer.Fußart.Btl.16

End of 1915 it was in exercising in Straßburg (140 men, 9 horses).

In december 1915 they came to Thorn (East-Prussia), where they got their guns. (Russian 10cm canons)

In january 1916 they were transfered to France (Hénin-Liétard)

Battles:

since january 1916 in 18th Res.Div.. they stood near Cité de Riaumont near Lens. January/february Artois and Neuville St. Vaast.

In that time it was near Liévin.

In may and june it fought near Givenchy-en-Gohelle.

When it changed it name into 4./16 they stil stayed in Liévin until april 1917. The  they were west of Sallaumines

(Source:Waffengedenkbuch der königl. bayer. schweren Artillerie)

http://www.lovettartillery.com/Russian_107mm.htm

 

Thanks so much Prussian 

Effectivly this unit stayed in Lievin mining cottage of Fosse 3 ( Cité de Riaumont ) and posseded Russian guns ! ( Beute Geschütze ) ....

Best regards

Bruno    

529_002.jpg

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Hello Bruno!

Coud you show us the front side, please?

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Observatoire Batterie 617.jpgHere , this is at corner rue Ampère ( Ampère street ) rue Thiers ( Thiers street ) in Liévin city , near the Cité de Riaumont !

 

In the distance, one perceives two towers of pit mines 6 of Liévin in Angres .

 

Best regards

 

Bruno

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The Russians 10 cm canon .

img_4217.jpg

 

img_4218.jpg

 

img00910.jpg

 

img00911.jpg

  

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Liévin... Not far away from the Restaurant Routier in Thelus and the canadian mémorial...:rolleyes:

I had a lot of good wine, when I used to be there a couple of years  ago...

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  • 2 weeks later...
On ‎18‎/‎07‎/‎2016 at 17:13, Prussian said:

Liévin... Not far away from the Restaurant Routier in Thelus and the canadian mémorial...:rolleyes:

I had a lot of good wine, when I used to be there a couple of years  ago...

Hi

Yes near Liévin

This roadside restaurant is not far from this monument in Thelus !

Bruno

715_0010.jpg

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  • 2 years later...

Any information about the Infanterie Regiment Nr 131 particularly its whereabouts in 1917 and 1918 would be gratefully received. My great uncle was a Sanitätsunteroffizier in the 6 Company of this regiment. How difficult (or easy) is it to track down an individual's military record?

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Hi,

as it was a Prussian regiment chances are really, really slim to find individual records, unless your relative had for some reason a private copy of his Stammrollenauszug. The official Stammrollen which had the military careers of the Prussian units listed were all destroyed in WW2. If by chance, your relative became a German Gymnasiallehrer or a Beamter you might find his Personalakte in the appropriate archives. It included a CV with his military service.

For the bigger picture you might find these books helpful:

Bruno v. Oppen: "Ehemaliges 2. Lothringisches Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 131", Berlin 1938: Kyffhäuser, (Tradition des Deutschen Heeres: Heft 126).

Bruno v. Oppen: "Die 131er während der Kämpfe in Galizien, um Riga und auf Ösel", Lüdenscheid 1917, Spannagel & Caesar.

GreyC

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21 minutes ago, Pilipala said:

Any information about the Infanterie Regiment Nr 131 particularly its whereabouts in 1917 and 1918 would be gratefully received. My great uncle was a Sanitätsunteroffizier in the 6 Company of this regiment. How difficult (or easy) is it to track down an individual's military record?

 

This may help as regards the whereabouts of IR 131:(part of the 42 Infanterie Division)

http://www.militaerpass.net/42id.htm

at a glance: 1917 Poland/Ukraine/Baltics, 1918 Flanders/Northern France


What's his name? He might be on the Verlustliste if he got wounded:

http://des.genealogy.net/eingabe-verlustlisten/search

 

 

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See f.i.

 

https://forum.pages14-18.com/viewtopic.php?t=61603

 

The regimental history seems rare. I don't have it and don't remember having seen it somewhere either. There should be a copy in the Bundesarchiv-Militärarchiv in Freiburg im Breisgau most probably.

 

JWK, see also

 

Jan

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7 hours ago, GreyC said:

Hi,

as it was a Prussian regiment chances are really, really slim to find individual records, unless your relative had for some reason a private copy of his Stammrollenauszug. The official Stammrollen which had the military careers of the Prussian units listed were all destroyed in WW2. If by chance, your relative became a German Gymnasiallehrer or a Beamter you might find his Personalakte in the appropriate archives. It included a CV with his military service.

For the bigger picture you might find these books helpful:

Bruno v. Oppen: "Ehemaliges 2. Lothringisches Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 131", Berlin 1938: Kyffhäuser, (Tradition des Deutschen Heeres: Heft 126).

Bruno v. Oppen: "Die 131er während der Kämpfe in Galizien, um Riga und auf Ösel", Lüdenscheid 1917, Spannagel & Caesar.

GreyC

 

I have checked and now I see there is no real regimental history: The first brochure is a general brochure from the series "Tradition des Deutschen Heeres". These are very general and mainly meant for soldiers serving in the (Reichswehr and Wehrmacht) units that had taken over the "Tradition" of the former Imperial units after 1918. These brochures are 24 pages IIRC and half of that is general info about the war...

The other brochure/book is a wartime publication (censorship!) about the unit's history in 1917.

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50 minutes ago, GreyC said:

Hi,

better than nought, esppecially it covers part of the time asked for..

GreyC

 

 

That is of course true. I just wanted to point out that it is very unlikely that the person will be mentioned.

 

It may be worthwile to check the regimental histories of IR 17 and IR 138, who were in the same division at that point (1917-1918). Just to get an idea about the area and the battles.

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  • 1 month later...

There was a veterans organization for the officers of IR131 which published a newsletter. These sometimes contained accounts by former members. Unfortunately they are uncommon, however I believe I picked up a few some years back for either IR131 or IR138. 

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Hi,

it was published in Wuppertal and ran approx. from 1932-1938. Most of them are stored at the university library in Bonn.

Nachrichtenblatt des Bundes Ehem. 131er (2. Lothr. Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 131)

GreyC

 

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On 14/10/2018 at 02:13, GreyC said:

Hi,

it was published in Wuppertal and ran approx. from 1932-1938. Most of them are stored at the university library in Bonn.

Nachrichtenblatt des Bundes Ehem. 131er (2. Lothr. Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 131)

GreyC

 

 

Thanks for that. Hopefully one day these will also be digitized. 

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  • 8 months later...
On 03/02/2006 at 23:18, bmac said:

Patrick,

I already have got the relevant sections from these unit histories:

Büsing, Georg „Das Reserve-Feldartillerie-Regiment Nr. 20 im Weltkriege 1914-18“ Göhmann, Hannover 1932

Forstner, Kurt Frhr. v. „Das Königlich – Preussische Reserve-Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 15“ Sporn Zeulenroda 1931

Kümmel, Alfred „Reserve-Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 91 im Weltkriege 1914-1918“ Stalling, Oldenburg 1926

Nörr, Hermann „Das K. B. 19. Feldartillerie-Regiment“ Schick, München 1930

Wohlenberg, Alfred „Das Reserve-Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 77 im Weltkriege 1914-18“ Gerstenberg, Hildesheim 1931

however, if you ever come across anything relating to these units I would be interested:

2nd Guards Reserve Division

2nd Guard Foot Artillery Regiment

19th Bavarian Field Artillery Regt

15th Infantry Regiment (2nd Westphalian)

52nd Infantry Division

103rd Field Artillery Regiment

104th Field Artillery Regiment

10th Bavarian Foot Artillery Regt

170th Infantry Regiment (9th Baden)

Hi

 

I am trying to find information on Bavaria Landsturm Infantry Regiment No. 1. I have not found any reference to it on the internet or in the threads of this topic. Did it exist? Any information will be appreciated.

Thanking you

Murray

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