Angel of Ypres?

[BMoorhouse]

I have recently been told of a WW1 poem in which the author claims to have seen the 'Angel of Ypres'. Does anyone know what this might refer to? I have heard of the Angel of Mons.

Thanks.

Brendon.

[Patrick ODwyer]

I haven't heard of the 'Angels of Ypres' but what about the 'Angels of Mons'? I know that this story has been much discussed and often disregarded as a total fiction - and it may be. But back in the early 80s I met a soldier who said that he had seen this. He described it as a cloud formation that was only visable to the British as they looked back towards the North and East (?) from where they had retreated after Mons. As you may know this 'vision' was given some religious signifigance or at least represente a promise to the British troops of future success.

What was intersting about my source was that he was an athiest and regarded it as no more than an natural occurance. I have never really looked into this story as my interests lie elsewhere but he told me this without any fuss and 'on the spot' as it were.

He was in the 4th Battalion, The Middlesex Regiment (where they at Mons?). He also had a German surname and I have been unable to find an MIC to him. He may have course have served under his mother's name (which I can't recall now) as I believe others did.

I have an open mind on this story and have no idea if it is verifiable or not. I hope this goes some way to explain the 'Angels of Mons' and perhaps Ypres was similar.

[Neil Burns]

Hi,

I have never heard of the Angel of Ypres but to the best of my knowledge the Angel of Mons was created by Arthur Macan (Sp?) in a work of fiction at the time.

I'm sure it must have come up before on this forum.

According to Chris' site the 4 Middlesex were at Mons.

Take care,

Neil

[Mark Hone]

The 'Angel of Mons' has been discussed on this forum before. There was an article on it in a recent edition of Fortean Times magazine(Issue 170 May 2003) as a prelude to a new book on the subject by Dr David Clarke to be published next year. In common with most 'urban legends' the origin of the story has proved incredibly difficult to establish. Although many people point to Arthur Machen's short story 'The Bowmen' there is some evidence that Machen himself got the idea from stories emanating from the front. There is also the slight problem that his story is not about angels but spectral longbowmen who protect the BEF. The legend is also discussed in 'Myths and Legends of the First World War' by James Hayward (Sutton 2002) but I have not yet had chance to read this book. The author seems to be a serious researcher and an article by him appears in the latest 'Stand To'.

[Tom Morgan]

Mark - do you know what the evidence is that Machen wrote "The Bowmen" having heard stories from the front? I have often heard it suggested that Machen must have copied or at least been inspired by stories from soldiers, but I've never heard of any proof being offered that this is the case.

Machen himself stated quite clearly that it was "all his own work" thus :

Now it has been murmured and hinted and suggested and whispered in all sorts of quarters that before I wrote the tale I had heard something. The most decorative of these legends is also the most precise: "I know for a fact that the whole thing was given him in typescript by a lady-in-waiting." This was not the case; and all vaguer reports to the effect that I had heard some rumours or hints of rumours are equally void of any trace of truth.

First of all, all ages and nations have cherished the thought that spiritual hosts may come to the help of earthly arms, that gods and heroes and saints have descended from their high immortal places to fight for their worshippers and clients. Then Kipling's story of the ghostly Indian regiment got in my head and got mixed with the mediævalism that is always there; and so THE BOWMEN was written. I was heartily disappointed with it, I remember, and thought it--as I still think it--an indifferent piece of work.

But in a few days from its publication the editor of THE OCCULT REVIEW wrote to me. He wanted to know whether the story had any foundation in fact. I told him that it had no foundation in fact of any kind or sort; I forget whether I added that it had no foundation in rumour but I should think not, since to the best of my belief there were no rumours of heavenly interposition in existence at that time. Certainly I had heard of none. Soon afterwards the editor of LIGHT wrote asking a like question, and I made him a like reply.

Tom

[Mark Hone]

Tom-As I said in my original posting, getting to the bottom of so-called 'urban legends' (e.g. 'the hairy-handed hitchhiker' 'alligators in the New York sewers') is extremely difficult. Like deciding who invented a particular item, researchers always seem to be able to unearth an earlier example. Although Machen's story 'The Bowmen' appeared in Evening News as early as 29th September 1914 there is apparently an earlier reference in the diaries of Brigadier-General John Charteris, no less. In his entry for 5th September he allegedly wrote:

'then there is the story of the 'angel of Mons' going through 2nd Corps, or how the Angel of the Lord on the traditional white horse...faced the advancing Germans at Mons and forbade their further progress. Men's nerves and imagination play wierd pranks in these strenuous times. all the same the angel at Mons interests me. I cannot find out how the legend arose' (from 'At GHQ', Cassell 1931, quoted in Kevin McClure's interesting booklet 'Visions of Angels and Tales of Bowmen', privately published).

This seems to be the earliest extant reference. Interestingly, the account actually refers to an angel, whereas as I state earlier, the Machen story is about ghostly archers. The details of Machen's story differ in other respects from the 'popular' angels legend. I am a little circumspect about the Charteris quote, having not examined the original source (although I must stress that I have no reason to doubt Mr. McClure) There is also the possibility that it is a later interpolation by Charteris in his published diaries. Perhaps other Pals would like to comment on the reliability of Charteris as a a source. The McClure pamphlet is an interesting read, attempting to identify contemporary references. There was discussion at the time as to whether the Machen story had inspired the Angels legend, or vice versa or indeed whether they were entirely distinct, as McClure tentatively concludes. McClure regrets that he has not come across any contemporary references in soldiers' letters home.

[Greenwoodman]

Mark

Not quite sure whatyou mean about the Charteris quote. I can confirm the quote is in "At GHQ" page 25. As for his reliability, he says in his preface"Where the records were incomplete, I have amplified them by my recollections, and I have now inserted names which, for reasons of censorship, were then omitted. But in the main the book is in the words written at the time".

His book is based on what he wrote home (of which "every scrap" was preserved), notes (not a diary) kept of his views from "day to day", and all of his official correspondence.

[Mark Hone]

Thanks for the confirmation. As a (sometime) trained historian, I'm always cagey about a source I haven't actually examined myself. You never know whether it's being quoted out of context etc. As McClure says in his booklet, the Charteris account would appear on the face of it to be genuinely contemporary, rather than added later on when he was preparing his book for publication with all the benefit of hindsight. You never know of course.