.303 Wooden Ammo Boxes - Any Info or pics please!

[yellow]

I am interested in aquiring a .303 British ammo box from WW1.............not a huge shipping crate. I dont mind if its for Vickers belts or SMLE.

The big problem is I dont even know what one looks like and to make things worse I havent got a clue as to what stencils were used............font and colour etc.

A friend offered me a box just over 30cm in length in wood with two carrying rope handles at each end. The stencil reads .303 ball in a yellow paint...........there are no dates. I had to refuse the purchase because I couldnt confim it was WW1.

Does anyone know anything about these or better still can post a pic from their own collection?

Thanks,

Steve.

[Max Poilu]

See here:

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...c=41087&hl=ammo

[yellow]

Sorry but I have already seen that thread. It is of no use........has no photos of boxes (only a crate) and the transfers are repro. It would appear to be something we have so far not covered on forum. Thank you.

Steve.

[gew98]

Sorry but I have already seen that thread. It is of no use........has no photos of boxes (only a crate) and the transfers are repro. It would appear to be something we have so far not covered on forum. Thank you.

Steve.

Steve ; If memory serves me right the standard shipping 'container' for 303 SAA intended for combat use was a rope handled wooden crate that was tin lined and opened in a 'small' square center position from where bandoliers of 303 ball were then pulled out.

I don't recall any 303 ammo being issued for combat use other than the wooden crate - no wooden or steel ammo cans like the US or germans had for their MG's. I have had 32 round cardboard boxes of 303 ball but these were all WW2 or later dates.

[Max Poilu]

Sorry but I have already seen that thread. It is of no use........has no photos of boxes (only a crate) and the transfers are repro. It would appear to be something we have so far not covered on forum. Thank you.

Steve.

Hmmm, somehow I doubt you will find original transfers...!

IIRC only wooden crates were used in 14-18.

The pack from Tommy's will give you the plans and dimensions to construct your own crate and a set of reproduction labels.

If you are after an authentic 14-18 crate then I have seen a few in France but they are very scarce. Having said that, they are particularly difficult items to truly authenticate as Great War.

Google may be helpful but I think these are later labels:

http://images.google.co.uk/images?svnum=10...box&btnG=Search

[yellow]

Many thanks for your replies and I am sorry if my questions were confusing.

I`m talking about WW1 ammo boxes sort of size:

The is supposidly for the Vickers.......and WW1? My Vickers manual tells me boxes of this sort were stored on limbers?

Thanks,

Steve.

[Guest]

The box you show for belted ammunition was almost certainly part of a unit's equipment and not a box used for storage and supply. Belts would have been taken from the original box and loaded into the one shown for field use.

I am pretty sure that 1,000 rounds per box was the standard package, but unfortunately I do not know enough about WWI packaging to tell you much about any sub-packaging inside the box.

Certainly by WWII, in addition to belts and bandoliers, "loose" rounds would be packe dinto cartons inside the box and I am pretty sure that some ammunition at least was packed into cartons as far back as the Zulu wars and the Martini-Henry.

[TonyE]

The belt box for the Vickers in WWI was wooden, dove-tailed , with a hinged flap for the belt to feed through. I do not have picture of one but I am sure you will find one on the net somewhere.

"Loose" .303 ammunition was normally packed either in paper bundles of 10 rounds, packed head to tail, and tied with twine, or in cardboad boxes with the rounds in chargers. These IFIC were for twenty rounds. The correct title was "Case, Charger, Mark Ic".

There was also a "Case, cardboard, to hold .303" cartridges" but I cannot tell from the contract records how many it held.

The whole area of SAA packaging in WWI is poorly documented and worthy of a bit more research.

I do not have a decent drawing of the crate for .303" ammo, but attached is the H6 crate for .256" (6.5mm Arisaka) that would have been very similar to the .303".

Regards

TonyE

Edited 8 January , 2006 by TonyE

[Andrew Upton]

Many thanks for your replies and I am sorry if my questions were confusing.

I`m talking about WW1 ammo boxes sort of size:

The is supposidly for the Vickers.......and WW1? My Vickers manual tells me boxes of this sort were stored on limbers?

Thanks,

Steve.

Just to point out, the "Box, Belt, Vickers No.10, Tinned Plate, for 250-round belt" pictured was developed post-WW1 for use in armoured vehicles and officially adopted on March 17th, 1930 (hence the "cut" corner for the ammunition belt to feed out of).

The earliest pattern Vickers ammunition box used in WW1 was made of wood, but was replaced by metal boxes as the war progressed, and the various failings of the wood boxes highlighted by actual war conditions (the metal boxes being designated the No.'s 6 Mk1, 7 Mk1, 8 Mk1 and 9 Mk1, each showing slight modifications as the war progressed, but following the same general pattern - these were rectangular, with no "cut" corner, with a lid hinged at the centre and at the far side, with two leather handles, one either side). Dolf Goldsmith in "The Grand Old Lady of No-Man's-Land" records that he has never seen one of the wooden boxes, the usual "issued until remaining stocks exhausted" being used.

Pictured below is the style most commonly used in WW1 (picture and information above from Goldsmith 1994 "Grand Old Lady Of No-Mans-Land", pages 473-474):

Edited 8 January , 2006 by Andrew Upton

[Guest]

The .256 box seems to show two sub packs which closely resemble the type of sub paxk used until more recent times, namelt a tin plate box with a soldered lid and a handle for tearing it off.

I note the screwed lid, which must have caused problems in the field, compared with more modern types of fastenings, which are much quicker to release.

Edited 8 January , 2006 by angie999

[Chris P]

Here's a pic of a steel Vickers ammo box, belts, 17 dated.

ChrisP.

and another showing the double hinged lid.

[yellow]

Chaps you have been most helpful here. I believe my questions have been answered.

Steve.