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Armoured Farmer

South Irish Horse

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vaugh
Armoured Farmer

I imagine you probably have these two (or one) but here they are anyway:

BENTLEY,(1) Private James Edward. Born Hillsborough. Address and enlisted at Dublin and served in SIH 1742. KIA in France on the 14.5.17 aged 22. Buried in Philosophe British Cemetery, Mazingarbe, France,

Could Bentley have served under an assumed name?

JOHNSTON,(1) Private Alfred. Born Hillsborough. Served in SIH 1742. Died on the 14.5.17. [iMR vol. 4 p. 270]. (1) The details here re. service number, regiment and date of death are the same as for James Edward Bentley, see above. WOCL and CWGC have no record of Johnston, his details coming from IMR. Could there be some confusion over the service number? CWGC have over 100 A. Johnstons and WOCL 55, none in SIH.

Hi Pat,

We have Bentley but no mention of Johnston. It would not be unheard of for Bentley to have used another name, or for that matter for Johnstone to have used another name.

In this case I feel there may be a mistake somewhere as we normally find men using another name have a different number, there is no additional information on his MIC either so that line drew a blank. I'll have a chat with Hugh and see what we come up with. Thanks for posting the information in the first place though, gives the old gray matter a run out....

Regards

Doug

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Armoured Farmer
Armoured Farmer

I imagine you probably have these two (or one) but here they are anyway:

BENTLEY.......

Pat

Pat,

Thanks for these. Leave them with me for a while, I'm short of time at the moment.

Bye the way, what is "WOCL"?

All the Best

Hugh

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Archer
Clewy

Thanks, Doug - it's all grist to the mill. Much appreciated!

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pat geary

Hugh

WOCL is me causing confusing. Years ago when I started researching men on the local war memorial I abbreviated SDGW references as War Office Casualty List.

Pat

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Hambo

Arm

I have a little on one officer, if you have any more I'd be grateful. He is.....

Jameson, Geoffrey James Captain

South Irish Horse

He was the son of J.O. Jameson and he left Hazelwood School in the summer of 1902 for Wellington College where he was in Brougham’s House, leaving in 1905 and going on to Trinity College Cambridge in 1907. After the war he lived at Dolland, Clonsvila, in County Dublin

That's all I have a small offering but as I say of you have anymore!

Hambo

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MrDave

Hello,

I have started to research my grandfather only this week, before this I knew nothing about him except that he was involved in WW1 and my parents have a compass, a watch, a whistle and some medals at home in the box the soldiers got from the Queen in 1915. I have traced his medal index card and he was in the South Irish Horse ( he was a Sergeant and a Sergeant Major) and landed in France 23.11.15. He was later in the 7th Royal Irish Regiment and the Reserve Regiment of Cavalry. I have emailed the guys at southirishhorse.com to see if it is any use to them.

Is there anywhere else that is worth me researching to try and find out more of him? Are his service records likely to be intact, is there likely to be anything useful in them?

According to Harris, "The new Southern Irish regiment had its headquarters at Artillery Barracks, Limerick,

I think my father has a group photograph at home which I think was taken in Limerick of my grandfather and a lot of other soldiers - perhaps this was taken before his unit went off to world war 1?

My grandmother only died in 2006, which is a pity, because she might have known more, but I never thought to ask her.

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MrDave

As I thought my father has a picture of the South Irish Horse and we are pretty sure it was taken in Limerick. We don't know the year but there are about 200 men in the picture. The detail on the original is quite good, they appear to have a dog as a mascot, the guys at the front are holding whips and a few of the guys appear to have different coloured uniforms. There is also a member of sitting on the roof, and he has a SIH emblem on his cap!

I took this picture of it with my digital camera and Dad will try and get it scanned properly in the next few days. He thinks his father is about 10 men in from the left in the front row.

limerick.jpg

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vaugh

Hi MrDave,

Stunning .... thanks for getting in touch, one of us will make contact directly shortly.

First time we've seen this particular photo. One without a dog or two in the front row would be very unusual for the SIH :D

I'll get some notes about the style of uniform as well. The majority of new recruits would be wearing the standard khaki drill worn by most men of this period. However there were two distinct types in use up to the start of WWI. See my site for an example of the working pattern as worn by Frank Vaugh on the pictures page. In essence they had a high collar in the twin regimental colours of green above red, half and half.

We'll be in touch again soon.

Cheers

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Armoured Farmer

Hello,

My apologies to all of you who have posted and not received answers yet.

"Hugh

WOCL is me causing confusing. Years ago when I started researching men on the local war memorial I abbreviated SDGW references as War Office Casualty List.

Pat "

Pat,

Thanks for that. I have enough trouble with abbreviations and acronyms as it is, I was almost going to ask my teenage neice!

I see Doug has answered your post.

Just a note re Johnson. Soldiers' Died does not always record all previous service before a soldier's death.

There may be confusion because there is an Alfred Johnston, 1742, NIH. What do you think?

"Arm

I have a little on one officer, if you have any more I'd be grateful. He is.....

Jameson, Geoffrey James Captain

South Irish Horse

He was the son of J.O. Jameson and he left Hazelwood School in the summer of 1902 for Wellington College where he was in Brougham’s House, leaving in 1905 and going on to Trinity College Cambridge in 1907. After the war he lived at Dolland, Clonsvila, in County Dublin

That's all I have a small offering but as I say of you have anymore!

Hambo"

Hambo,

Yes, we have more information on this man. Too much to post here. Send me a pm.

Dave,

I gather your grandfather was Thomas Mitchell, 299, SSM, NIH, later 2Lt 4th Res Regt of Dragoons. His papers are not yet on open access at the National Archives (TNA), so I can't tell you much.

If you look on the Medal Index Card that you've downloaded you will see a notation "27/9/61". This shows that the card was consulted on that date, most likely your grandfather or a relative if he had recently died made a request for information.

Either Doug or or I will be in touch.

All the Best

Hugh

PS If I've missed anyone out, please forgive me. Just send a pm to remind me.

H

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MrDave

Yes, my grandfather died in 1961. He was much older than my grandmother and she only died in 2006.

He was Thomas Mitchell, from Abbeyleix, Co. Laois, and he is buried in Nurney, Co. Kildare.

I looked at his medal last night (the 15 star I think it is) and it had 299 S. Ir. H printed on it and 299 was also engraved onto his whistle.

Thanks for all the help, this is really excellent, when we started looking we thought there would be nothing.

I assume becasue ye have no records that he was in the army for a few years after the war.

I will check the private messages now.

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Archer
(Archer @ Jan 18 2008, 05:12 AM)

James Clewy, Private no. 1102, South Irish Horse and Private, no. 73122, Corps of Hussars.

Have you anything about him ?

Hi William,

Not a sausage I'm afraid ... Apart from the usual from the medal rolls:

Entitled to a 15 Star trio, Disemb 2.5.19 and that's your lot

On our trawl through the WO 363 and 364 papers he did not surface either.

Regards

Doug

The launch of MICs on Ancestry.com gave me a prod, so I went to fetch Clewy's card.

Does his date of entry have any regimental significance ?

post-3636-1203916222.jpg

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pat geary

Hello,

Pat,

Thanks for that. I have enough trouble with abbreviations and acronyms as it is, I was almost going to ask my teenage neice!

I see Doug has answered your post.

Just a note re Johnson. Soldiers' Died does not always record all previous service before a soldier's death.

There may be confusion because there is an Alfred Johnston, 1742, NIH. What do you think?

Hugh,

Sorry being so slow replying; I had forgotten about it until I spotted the topic coming up again today.

I take it that the Alfred Johnston in NIH survived - I can’t find him in SDGW or CWGC under that spelling or variations of it. If that is the case I’m trying to think how he ended up with Bently’s details. If it was a transcription error by whoever compiled IMR, what were they doing with Johnston’s name in the first place if he survived? I don’t get it. Am I missing something obvious?”

Pat

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ckop4

Hi All, Just wondered if you could verify some information from a local history book. Just a bit of background first - in County Cork in January 1921, the Manchester regiment attacked a party of IRA who were lying in wait to ambush a British patrol at Dripsey. Ten members of the IRA were captured, most of whom were subsequently executed. Among those executed was a Thomas O'Brien who was, apparently, a deserter from the South Irish Horse. The book 'Lady Hostage (Mrs Lindsay) by Tim Sheehan says that-

'... Thomas O'Brien of Dripsey, and Inniscarra Company, a skilled marksman trained for combat in the South Irish Horse from which he deserted three weeks before the ambush...'

and -

'Tom O'Brien .....father of convicted Tommy O'Brien - was hopeful of a last minute reprieve, even though his son, being a deserter from the South Irish Horse, seemed to have a poor chance.'

So I wondered if there is any way of verifying that Thomas O Brien was a SIH deserter - I had understood that this regiment was disbanded in 1919?

JPC

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kildaremark

From the Irish Times 9/1/1916.

post-6633-1209372340.jpg

post-6633-1209332855.png

Mark

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Armoured Farmer

JPC,

We have only one Thomas O'Brien in our SIH database. THis man was discharged unfit for service in 1917 after time in France.

There may well be another Thomas O'Brien that we are unaware of. The regiment was not disbanded until July 1922. I'll have to do a bit more digging on this one!

Mark,

Thanks for this.

Le Bas and Armstrong were killed when an artillery round hit them as they were preparing a Trench Catapult for action: -

http://southirishhorse.com/documents/a_sqn_war_diaries.htm

All the Best

Hugh

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kildaremark

Another one for you from the Irish Times 30/1/1916:-

post-6633-1209390115.jpg

post-6633-1209390138.png

Mark

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kildaremark

The Irish Times again...

Members of the Royal Irish Constabulary (RIC) serving in the war:-

post-6633-1209410964.png

........and members of the Dublin Metropolitan Police (DMP) with their DMP number:-

post-6633-1209411041.png

Hopefully, it might get you a few more for the database.

Mark

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Armoured Farmer

Mark,

Thanks for these.

All the Best,

Hugh

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auchonvillerssomme

Name: COATES, WILLIAM ALEXANDER

Initials: W A

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Private

Regiment/Service: Royal Irish Regiment

Unit Text: 7th (South Irish Horse) Bn.

Age: 25

Date of Death: 27/03/1918

Service No: 25145

Additional information: Son of Susan Coates, of 2, Brighton Cottages, Foxrock, Co. Dublin, and the late Alexander Coates; husband of Maude Coates.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: XVI. E. 1.

Cemetery: VILLERS-BRETONNEUX MILITARY CEMETERY

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Hett65

Hugh

Two Newcastle upon Tyne City policemen joined the South Irish Horse, their details are below but I do not have their regimental numbers.

DOLAN Patrick. Trooper South Irish Horse.

Born 25.1.1893 at Golagh, Glengevlin, Down, Co Cavan

When he applied for the polie he was a single man, 5'10 in height, occupation miner at Montague Colliery, Scotswood, Newcastle, he had worked there for 11 months. Prior to that he was employed as a farm labourer by his father Terence on his farm (file does not say where farm located).

Appointed Newcastle City Police 24.2.1911 as PC20B, to B Division

19.4.1918 Resigned to join HMF (Possibly did not serve overseas due to late joining, however he may have attested for service in 1915 as many police officers did, and in March and April 1918, 60 were mobilized)

10.1.1919 Returned to force

7.5.1926 A Division as PC130A

5.3.1930 B Division as PC85B

2.4.1937 Retired on pension

WALKER Joseph. Trooper South Irish Horse

Born 9.7.1893 at Crossomolina, Co Mayo

When applied for police he was a farmer, 6'0 in height, married with two children.

Appointed Newcastle City Police 1.5.1914 as PC30C

3.7.1914 C Division as PC30C

15.1.1917 Discipline offence. Improper conduct by a constable by acting in a manner conducive to obstruct the proper discharge of enquiries relative to persons in custody for larceny on 9.1.1917. Admonished by the Chief Constable and ordered to be transfered.

15.1.1917 D Division as PC16D

19.4.1918 Resigned to join HMF (Possibly same as above)

10.1.1919 Returned to police service as PC16D

5.9.1924 On the recommendation of the Chief Constable, the Watch Committee commended the above officer for his conduct in arresting 2 men for shopbreaking on the 31st August and awarded him a gratuity of £2.2.0

7.5.1926 A Division as PC99A

13.1.1928 Commended by the Chief Constable for good attention to police duty in connection with the recent detection of offenders.

3.9.1931 Discipline offence. Drinking alcholic liquor whilst on duty between 6am and 11.20am on Sunday 30th August without the consent of a superior officer. Fined 19/6d by the Chief Constable

4.1.1935 Commended by the Chief Constable for good attention to police duty in connection with the arrest of a well known shopbreaker on the 7th October.

3.10.1946 Retired on a pension of £213.15s.9d pa

John

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susanhemmings

Hello All, These are the claimed "SERVICE" records currently on Ancestry: ("South Irish Horse" entered into the Regiment search field).

James Abbott 20 abt 1893 St Georges Dublin 1913

Patrick Ahern 18 abt 1898 46 Green St, Cork 1916

John W Atkinson 18 abt 1898 137 Stone Street, Newcastle-On Tyne

Lancelot Barnard 20 abt 1894 Leiston Suffolk 1914

Lancelot Barnard 20 abt 1894 Leiston Suffolk 1914

Michael Francis Beatty 23 abt 1893 St Catherines Limerick 1916

Anthony Beyers 24 abt 1890 St John Dublin 1914

Anthony Beyers 24 abt 1890 St John Dublin 1914

Mark Joseph Boyle 26 abt 1891 96 Melrose Rd, Lpool 1917

Thomas Edward Carr 31 abt 1884 42 Oliver Street, West Benwell 1915

Patrick Collins 18 abt 1899 Clare Castle Ballyhonty, CO Cork 1917

Christopher Condon 30 abt 1887 Tipperary, Ireland 1917

Henry Cormack 22 abt 1892 Dublin Dublin 1914

John Courtney 20 abt 1895 Cashel Lounemar 1915

Sinon Cullinan 19 abt 1898 Vandeleur St, Kilrush CO Clare 1917

Richard John Dalton 18 abt 1894 Douglas Cork 1912

Richard John Dalton 18 abt 1894 Douglas Cork 1912

Ernest Septimus Dootson 31 abt 1884 19 Limeside Rd, Failsworth Nr Oldham 1915

Donald William Duncan

Patrick Enright

James Fanning 33 abt 1882 Derry Londonderry 1915

Edward Firth 25 abt 1890 9 Addison Road, Fairview Dublin 1915

Edward Firth 25 abt 1890 9 Addison Road, Fairview Dublin 1915

Peter Flannelly 23 abt 1893 Grattan Road, Galway 1916

Peter Flannelly 23 abt 1893 Grattan Road, Galway 1916

Walter Glover 23 abt 1892 Sefton Park B, Stoke Pages Buck 1915

William J Gray 22 abt 1894 Idis Street, Mallow Colnk 1916

Horace James Green 26 abt 1891 413 Earnest St, Crewe Cheshire 1917

William Hackney 19 abt 1897 Churchtown, CO Cork 1916

John Hannigan 35 abt 1880 Ballyvaden Fethard, CO Tipperary 1915

Maurice Healy 27 abt 1889 Ballyrafaura, Fcomoy CO Cork 1916

Maurice Healy 27 abt 1889 Ballyrafaura, Fcomoy, CO Cork 1916

Eugene Hickey 20 abt 1897 Port Abbeyfeale, CO Limerick 1917

Albert James Holland 21 abt 1896 Liverpool Lancashire 1917

Edward Hoy 21 abt 1895 Tankervill Balbriggan, Dublin 1916

Susan

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vaugh
Hello All, These are the claimed "SERVICE" records currently on Ancestry: ("South Irish Horse" entered into the Regiment search field).

Susan

Hi Susan,

many thanks for taking the trouble to post the above names, as you can see it's taken me a while to spot the post and make a reply. It's all very much appreciated so thanks again. I have to say the indexes on Ancestry have revealed quite a few strays that we would have been hard pressed to identify by other means.

Best wishes

Doug

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Desmond7

Nice to see you on again.

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Wesley Wright

DIGNAN, ALBERT GUYInitials:A G Nationality:United Kingdom/Rank:LieutenantRegiment/Service:Royal Irish RegimentUnit Text:7th (South Irish Horse) Bn.Age:23Date of Death:21/03/1918Additional information:Son of Charles Coleman Dignan and Angline Victoria Dignan, of Ballinagard House, Roscommon.Casualty Type:Commonwealth War DeadGrave/Memorial Reference:Panel 6.Memorial:POZIERES MEMORIAL

This gentlemans nephew is still alive and well--have visited his memorial several times.

ps--The brother of A G Dinnan was also killed with the Connaught Rangers.

Wesley

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vaugh
DIGNAN, ALBERT GUY.

This gentlemans nephew is still alive and well--have visited his memorial several times.

ps--The brother of A G Dinnan was also killed with the Connaught Rangers.

Hi Wesley,

Been a while since I was on here :mellow:

Thanks for the above information re Dignan (my father pronounces the name Degnan!) but then he's a Roscommon man himself. There are a few files on the Dignan family at Kew one interesting one in the CO class list.

We have a little on Albert Guy Dignan but not a lot on Charles Alfred Dignan. Cecil Joseph Burk Dignan is another one, he died in 1942 and is remembered in the Springvale War Cem Melbourne.

Regards

Doug

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