Aisne- Chemin des Dames Battle May- June 1918

[bierast]

5 minutes ago, David_Blanchard said:

Have you come across this thread on the Forum 14 18 ?

 

https://forum.pages14-18.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=61471&hilit=Bois+des+Buttes+Saxon

 

Which is concerned with Saxon troops on the Aisne?

 

I had not - thankyou. The information in that thread on the French units opposite is particularly interesting - the 246 RI (see photo on the last page of the thread) was successfully identified by SR 108 from the numerous prisoners taken on 10th March 1916.

[David_Blanchard]

I have the file on Alexander Milne- Thompson to hand. I will look for others

 

David 

[David_Blanchard]

German soldiers of the 177e Saxon regiment and civilians beside the canal at Guigincourt near Berry au Bac April 1915.

 

 

[PJS]

Thank you David. There is a lot of back and forth in 2/Lt Downing's war record as part of the process to officially declare him dead (and pay his Widow his pension) and one of the men asked to provide an account references a letter his wife received from the "British Nurse" who was there at the CCS. That nurse must have been Constance Colt-Williams.

[bierast]

19 minutes ago, David_Blanchard said:

German soldiers of the 177e Saxon regiment and civilians beside the canal at Guigincourt near Berry au Bac April 1915.

 

Very nice! IR 177 (the most junior infantry regiment of the Dresden garrison) belonged to the neighbouring 32. Inf. Div. Berry-au-Bac seems to have been more consistently dangerous than La-Ville-aux-Bois, principally because the dominating Höhe 108 (Hill 108) on the south bank of the Aisne was a focus for mining warfare. This was one of the major responsibilities of the corps engineers of XII.AK (consisting of the 1., 2. and 3. Feldkompagnie / Pionier-Bataillon Nr.12 plus bridging trains and searchlight platoon).

 

Accommodation barge of IR 177 on the canal, 1915:

 

 

Mixed group of Iron Cross winners from IR 102, 103 and 177 showing their relaxed relationship with the civilian population:

 

 

Höhe 108 was a popular subject for postcards and press coverage in Saxony:

 

 

 

At times Höhe 108 was held by Jäger-Bataillon Nr.12 rather than IR 177. Like SR 108 they wore the unique Saxon Tschako and the hunting horn on their shoulderstraps:

 

 

[David_Blanchard]

Aerial photograph of Cote 108 showing the extent of mining operations in the area.

[David_Blanchard]

Andrew,

 

Do you have any information with regard to the 9 Bavarian RID who were holding the Bois des Buttes when the French took it in April 1917?

[David_Blanchard]

Just looking through my records I came across this German account of fighting in the Bois des Buttes (or nearby) on 27 May 

 

Here is a quotation of Unteroffizier Spenker of Infantry Regiment 53:

 

Unteroffizier Spenker - during the advance of II.Bataillon Infanterie-Regiment 53 - 27th May

 

I had a view on the battle before me, as one rarely gets to see in his lifetime. About 600 meters to the right of us stood about 30 wrecked tanks from last year, when they were hit by our artillery during the unsuccesful offensive. In front of us raged a bitter fight. I admired our Bataillonsarzt [battalion physician]. Despite the heavy firing he went from one wounded to the other, friend or foe, to apply the first bandages. The main defence positions were already in our possession. A terrible view revealed itself before our eyes in a sunken road. Here the fleeing British must have been surprised by an artillery canonnade, because over a length of about 100 meters lay at least 200 fallen enemies. I don't exaggerate when I say that they partly lay in heaps on top of eachother and were terribly mutilated by shell splinters. 
 

[bierast]

37 minutes ago, David_Blanchard said:

Do you have any information with regard to the 9 Bavarian RID who were holding the Bois des Buttes when the French took it in April 1917?

 

Unfortunately not. Looking at its composition on Genwiki it seems that the component infantry regiments lack published histories. I can only recommend general Bavarian sources such as Die Bayern im Großen Kriege if you can locate a copy.

[David_Blanchard]

I have this...but my German is not great!

[David_Blanchard]

There is this section in the book.

[David_Blanchard]

And this section from the Kaiser’s Cross

http://www.kaiserscross.com/60401/60422.html

[bierast]

2 hours ago, David_Blanchard said:

Here is a quotation of Unteroffizier Spenker of Infantry Regiment 53:

 

It's interesting to note in the Kaiser's Cross article that IR 53 was also at Juvincourt in April 1917.

[bierast]

1 hour ago, David_Blanchard said:

There is this section in the book.

 

BEIR 3 was initially deployed as shown on the map at bottom left of the scanned page, with the III. Bataillon right, II. Bataillon left and the I. Bataillon divided between a reserve position on the Reims road and the artillery defence line in front of Juvincourt. On 12th April the French launched strong probing attacks and managed to break in (it is implied, in several places) but were ejected by immediate counter-attacks. On the right flank the 1. Kompagnie had to be committed from the reserve to throw them out, and took 1 French officer and 56 ORs prisoner.

 

During the night of 15th-16th April the intesnive enemy bombardment suddenly ceased. After a pause the French then attacked en masse at 06:30 on the 16th. On the right they broke in again but were immediately ejected by the 11. Kompagnie without resort to the reserves; however their company commander was wounded and had to be replaced by one of his platoon commanders. The company had by this time been reduced to a strength of three sections (less than a platoon). 9. Kompagnie repulsed the assault completely, taking 27 prisoners plus two MGs and three 'rapid-loading rifles' (possibly Chauchat LMGs? I've not seen this term used before in battle narratives). A French penetration between the III. and II. Bataillon disintegrated under enfillading fire from 12. Kompagnie on one side and 5. Kompagnie on the other; 30 French survivors were captured.

 

II. Bataillon had been due for relief by Prussians that morning, but this had been delayed. The severely depleted battalion was overrun by the French, who had broken into the neighbouring sector along the streambed of the Miette. Both the 1st and 2nd lines of II. / BEIR 3 were overrun, but the French were then driven back to the 2nd line by a local counterattack.

 

The regiment was now in a desperate position; on their right BRIR 14 had been driven back from the Viller Berg and was holding onto the village by the skin of its teeth' on their left the enemy had only been held at the artillery defence line.

[David_Blanchard]

Excellent Andrew thank you very much for this translation.

[David_Blanchard]

Andrew,

do you have any idea when the Germans seized the Bois des Buttes from the French?

 

David 

[bierast]

13 hours ago, David_Blanchard said:

Andrew,

do you have any idea when the Germans seized the Bois des Buttes from the French?

 

Its possession was hotly disputed in 1914, but it was held by the French when trench warfare set in. It was then seized and held by the Saxons on 10th March 1916 as discussed above (this was of course a local diversionary operation for Verdun).

[David_Blanchard]

Thanks once again Andrew for your help.

 

David 

[David_Blanchard]

From my Aisne Battle Twitter account

 

One of the heroes of the Aisne Battle 1918 Captain Leopold Wanstall 2 Middlesex Regt. Lost both parents at the turn of the century and ended up in a workhouse in the East end of London.Gained a commission and won an MC and Croix des Guerre.His brother Isaac Wanstall Kia first day on the Somme, with the 2 Middlesex Regiment.

 

 

 

 

Old Contemptibles Sittingbourne. Third from the right front row is Leopold Wanstall who served with 2 Middlesex in the Bois des Buttes on 27 May 1918. He was badly wounded and taken prisoner later losing an eye. He was awarded a Croix des Guerre for his role in the battle.

 

 

 

Edited 26 April , 2018 by David_Blanchard

[CROONAERT]

David...

 

Just back-tracking slightly, but ... are you still looking for 'Wagram'?  If so, then I've finally found one named on a map (but it's about 7 miles away from the bois des Buttes area)  - a 'Bastion Wagram' - in the Secteur Luxembourg opposite Loivre and just north of the Villers-Franqueux salient. Other Bastions in the area include Marengo, Jena, Malakoff, Sebastopol and Valmy. I can't see it named on any map dated after July 1916 but the actual feature certainly still seems to exist on later maps.

 

Dave.

[David_Blanchard]

Thanks Dave,

I also think it may refer to the Wagner Turm in the Bois des Buttes and for whatever reason became Wagram OP. I have a photograph of Wagner- but again not mentioned on any maps of the area.

 

David 

Edited 27 April , 2018 by David_Blanchard

[Stephen Boshier]

I have read 3rd Battle of Ainse by David Blanchard. George Boshier of the East Yorks is mentioned and I am to visit the area around the 27th May 2018, 100 years to the day he was KIA.

 

Is anyone aware of any local memorial services to commemorate to 100th anniversary of the battle?

 

Steve Boshier

[David_Blanchard]

Hi Stephen,

 

not sure if there are any services in this country- but I have posted here about a service at 10 30 at La Ville aux Bois on the Aisne 27 May.

 

David 

[David_Blanchard]

Sorry Stephen - miss read your post. Where will you be staying on 27 May?

 

David 

[Stephen Boshier]

Many thanks for your response David. I will be staying for three nights in Rheims; the 26th, 27th and 28th.

 

My message to you was the first time I have used this forum. It is taking me some time to find out how it all works.

 

Steve