Aisne- Chemin des Dames Battle May- June 1918

[David_Blanchard]

Stephen,

 

Hope to see you at the ceremony on 27 May

 

David 

[Frajohn]

On 9 May 2018 at 11:39, David_Blanchard said:

Hi Stephen,

 

not sure if there are any services in this country- but I have posted here about a service at 10 30 at La Ville aux Bois on the Aisne 27 May.

 

David 

 

David

 

I cannot see the details of the ceremony on May 27th. Please could you post the details.

 

Many thanks

 

Kind regards

 

John

 

 

[David_Blanchard]

These are the details I was given about 3 weeks ago:

 

The plan (to be confirmed after a Regimental Trustees meeting tomorrow) is that we will all get together at about 1030 hrs on the 27th in front of the 2nd Devons memorial at Ville aux Bois les Pontavert (also close to the 5 Bty plaque, of course). I have put together an Order of Service, although my plan is for it to minimally religious (not least because we have no chaplain!) It consists of an introduction by the senior Rifles Officer (Maj Gen Rupert Jones - son of 'H' - both former Devon and Dorsets) and then a series of about 8 short readings by members who are on parade. The readings are quotes by individuals who survived the battle. I have earmarked one "spot" for a Gunner - at the moment an account by "a battery commander" who met the CO of 2nd Devons before the position was completely overrun. I could increase this to 2 quite easily as long as they are short and to the point. We will have a number of fairly aged people on parade and I don't want them to have to stand still for too long - I was thinking about 30 minutes total. After the readings, I thought we should have a prayer, the Lord's Prayer, Last Post, Reveille, Regimental Marches and National Anthems. 

 

If there is a longer text to present, I think it would be best to do it during the walk over the battlefield in the afternoon.

 

I am in consultation, through the British Embassy in Paris, with a local caterer who will produce a light buffet/glass of wine for 200 attendees immediately after the parade - at present, for simplicity, the Devon and Dorsets are paying for it all centrally (some £3,000) (includes hire of cutlery etc and use of a "hanger" nearby so I'm hoping to get some sort of donation from other groups..... 

 

I hope this brings you up to speed with plans so far and I look forward to receiving any comments.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Geoff Nicholls 

[Frajohn]

Thank you David for the information.

 

I would appreciate it if you would post any updates. Also,  is it OK to attend the ceremony or do we have to notify anybody?

 

Kind regards

 

John

 

 

[David_Blanchard]

Hi John,

 

I would assume sure it would be fine attending the ceremony - the more the merrier I guess.

 

David 

[Stephen Boshier]

Thanks David for all the information. My brothers and I will make our way the service on the 27th. I look forward to meeting you there.

 

Steve

[Robin Garrett]

On the 6 June, 1/4KSLI, 56 Bde, 19 Div counter-attacked up the Montagne de Bligny, led by Lt Bright. The valour of their attack was recognised by the French with the award of the Croix de Guerre avec Palme. The ribbon was worn on the arm by all ranks of 4KSLI until it was disbanded in 1968. The Shropshire Regiments' Museum describes the action - see http://www.shropshireregimentalmuseum.co.uk/regimental-history/volunteers-territorial-and-militia/4th-territorial-battalion-ksli-bligny-and-the-croix-de-guerre/.

 

I shall be there on the centenary.

[David_Blanchard]

I wish I could join you but I return from the Aisne 2 June

[Robin Garrett]

Here's a photo of Bright as a captain.

[David_Blanchard]

Great photograph thanks for sharing 

[Alex Helstrip]

Hello. I will be visiting the Battlefield site this Sunday for the centenary of the Battle. I am particularly interested in 2nd Battalion Rifle Brigade and their movements. I have been able to identify their whereabouts (Berry au Bac) on a map at the beginning of the 27th  but I would like to know if there was anything 'relevant' there to look out for in that part of the Battlefield while I am there.

 

Thank You

[Stephen Boshier]

On ‎16‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 17:57, Stephen Boshier said:

Thanks David for all the information. My brothers and I will make our way the service on the 27th. I look forward to meeting you there.

 

Steve

david

 

I have been contacted by someone who is involved with a memorial service in Wantage on the 27th May. George Boshier was formerly of the Berkshire Yeomanry before 1/4 East Yorks. The inquiry was whether any of our family could attend. Unfortunately, we are all attending the Rheims area that day.

 

I note a prior post in 2006 from someone connected with George Boshier (possibly a Richard Boshier? who was a great nephew) to whom you replied. Is it possible you still have this contact and if so, are you able to pass-on the invitation? I realise it's along shot. Many thanks,

 

Steve

[David_Blanchard]

Hi Steve,

 

I think that must be Richard Vincent.

 

I will pm you his email.

 

David

[David_Blanchard]

19 hours ago, Alex Helstrip said:

Hello. I will be visiting the Battlefield site this Sunday for the centenary of the Battle. I am particularly interested in 2nd Battalion Rifle Brigade and their movements. I have been able to identify their whereabouts (Berry au Bac) on a map at the beginning of the 27th  but I would like to know if there was anything 'relevant' there to look out for in that part of the Battlefield while I am there.

 

Thank You

Hello Alex,

 

There is not anything for you to see per sae the positions held by the Rifle Brigade- as I would guess this area is now just open fields but it would be relatively easy to locate about a mile from La Cholera Crossroads (Tank Memorial) on the road to Juvincourt.

 

Regards

 

David

[Stephen Boshier]

24 minutes ago, David_Blanchard said:

Hi Steve,

 

I think that must be Richard Vincent.

 

I will pm you his email.

 

David

 

Thanks David. I'll let you know how I get on.

 

Steve

[Alex Helstrip]

To David Blanchard

 

Thank you for your reply to my enquiry concerning the 2nd Battalion Rifle Brigade. I noticed in an earlier message on this blog that there is to be a memorial service and Battlefield walk arranged for the day of the centenary on Sunday. I wondered if these events would be open for any one to attend. I made the decision to visit the Battlefield some time ago but feel I haven't been able to do much in the way of research in the interim on what to actually do and look for when I get there.

 

Regards

 

Alex Helstrip

[David_Blanchard]

14 minutes ago, Alex Helstrip said:

To David Blanchard

 

Thank you for your reply to my enquiry concerning the 2nd Battalion Rifle Brigade. I noticed in an earlier message on this blog that there is to be a memorial service and Battlefield walk arranged for the day of the centenary on Sunday. I wondered if these events would be open for any one to attend. I made the decision to visit the Battlefield some time ago but feel I haven't been able to do much in the way of research in the interim on what to actually do and look for when I get there.

 

Regards

 

Alex Helstrip

 I am sure it would be ok if you attended, given your interest in the Rifle Brigade.

 

David

[Mark Weekes]

Hello David Blanchard,

 

I wonder if you could help me. My Great Grandfather, Herbert George Weekes was sent to France in April 1918, initially as part of the Manchester Regiment, but on arrival in France he was transferred to the 5th Yorks Battalion and was killed on 27th May 1918. My research has revealed that the 5th Yorks Battalion was on the front line north of Craonne/Chemin Des Dammes that morning. I am going to travel to that area later this week and would like, if possible, to visit - as exactly as possible - the location where he would have fought. I have found this map  https://www.coquetandcoast.co.uk/amble-northumberland/showthread.php?t=281 that shows the approximate location, but I wondered if you knew - by reference to a modern reference point on a map - where this would now be? Many thanks in advance. 

 

Mark 

[Howard]

Text taken from the War Diary of 2nd Battalion, Middlesex Regiment for 27th May.

 

Howard

 

 

[David_Blanchard]

Hello Mark,

 

if you consult my book on the Aisne 1918- there is walk around the Californie Plateau it is in this area that the 5 Yorks we’re stationed that day as well as the small village of Craonne.

 

regards

 

David 

[Mark Weekes]

53 minutes ago, David_Blanchard said:

Hello Mark,

 

if you consult my book on the Aisne 1918- there is walk around the Californie Plateau it is in this area that the 5 Yorks we’re stationed that day as well as the small village of Craonne.

 

regards

 

David 

Hello David,

 

Thanks very much. I have found your extremely useful book now, and shall read it on the journey. I intend also making a stop at Soissons where my great grandfather’s name is on the memorial. 

 

Regards 

 

Mark. 

[David_Blanchard]

Mark,

 

Do you have a photograph of your great grandfather you could share?

 

David 

[Mark Weekes]

16 minutes ago, David_Blanchard said:

Mark,

 

Do you have a photograph of your great grandfather you could share?

 

David 

Hello David,

 

Sadly not. My grandfather did a lot of work researching his own father’s movements leading up to 27th May 1918, and may have had some photos of him. Unfortunately his work was lost after he died in 1986. My source for research on him is the World War One soldiers papers from the National Archive via Ancestry and some familial knowledge. 

 

An additional difficulty - so far as Herbert George Weekes (my great grandfather) is concerned -  is that he enlisted in 1914 in the Manchester Regiment, but was transferred to the Yorkshire Regiment on arrival at Etaples in April 1918, it’s highly unlikely any photos from other sources of the 1/5 Yorks from the time would show him. I have not tried the Manchester Regiment to see if they have any photos, but he was a clerk and so a reserved occupation and so spent the period from 1914-1918 at home, only being called into active duty in April 1918. 

[Guest]

Having been scanning in documents relating to my grandfather and discovering he was captured on 27th May 1918 at "Chemin des Dames" (he recorded key dates/places in his "Pocket Testament"), I was by chance able to drive along the CD18 route recently and visit various memorials etc relating to this ridge and in particular this date.

I have been wondering whether/how I can discover more about whereabouts he would have been positioned, but have so far drawn a blank and wonder if this forum is able to help.

The details I have are his discharge papers and his pocket testament and the very little he told me about the action.

Details: Name - Barrett Dennison, Regt.- Northumberland Fusiliers, Regt. Number - 66648, Unit - 1st Battalion (note this is the battalion on discharge in Sept 1919, and cannot have been the one he was in on 27th May as (discovered upon purchasing the battalion documents) it appears they were elsewhere!), Rank - Lance Corporal (on discharge, probably Private in 1918).

He told me he was part of a Lewis gun team (possibly because of his poor eyesight - quite an amusing story associated with that) and that they'd had a heavy bombardment early on the 27th May and had been firing the gun when all went quiet with no-one friend nor foe to be seen. They sent one of the team to find out what was happening and he eventually returned in a panic saying there were Germans in their trench! It appears their position was just by-passed and they were completely cut off. Eventually they surrendered (and his experiences as a prisoner of war are another story). Over what time period this played out I have no idea.

I apologise if this is not the appropriate place to make this request, but have found trying to find out more about this action fascinating and sobering.

[PJS]

On 16/08/2018 at 14:16, DPP said:

Having been scanning in documents relating to my grandfather and discovering he was captured on 27th May 1918 at "Chemin des Dames" (he recorded key dates/places in his "Pocket Testament"), I was by chance able to drive along the CD18 route recently and visit various memorials etc relating to this ridge and in particular this date.

I have been wondering whether/how I can discover more about whereabouts he would have been positioned, but have so far drawn a blank and wonder if this forum is able to help.

The details I have are his discharge papers and his pocket testament and the very little he told me about the action.

Details: Name - Barrett Dennison, Regt.- Northumberland Fusiliers, Regt. Number - 66648, Unit - 1st Battalion (note this is the battalion on discharge in Sept 1919, and cannot have been the one he was in on 27th May as (discovered upon purchasing the battalion documents) it appears they were elsewhere!), Rank - Lance Corporal (on discharge, probably Private in 1918).

He told me he was part of a Lewis gun team (possibly because of his poor eyesight - quite an amusing story associated with that) and that they'd had a heavy bombardment early on the 27th May and had been firing the gun when all went quiet with no-one friend nor foe to be seen. They sent one of the team to find out what was happening and he eventually returned in a panic saying there were Germans in their trench! It appears their position was just by-passed and they were completely cut off. Eventually they surrendered (and his experiences as a prisoner of war are another story). Over what time period this played out I have no idea.

I apologise if this is not the appropriate place to make this request, but have found trying to find out more about this action fascinating and sobering.

 

It appears that he was serving in D Company, 14th Platoon, 6th Northumberland Fusiliers on that day. See the ICRC cover page here: https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Details/355937/3/2/ and his record here: https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/List/355937/698/39896/

 

That would put him in the 50th Division,149th Bde:

50th Division: Major-General H C Jackson
149th Brigade: Brigadier-General E P A Riddell
4th Northumberland Fusiliers
5th Northumberland Fusiliers
6th Northumberland Fusiliers 

 

Lots of information about what happened on that day which you should easily be able to find but here's a quick summary from Military Operations France And Belgium 1918, Vol-III.

https://archive.org/stream/in.ernet.dli.2015.210685/2015.210685.Military-Operations_djvu.txt

 

The 149th Brigade (Br.-General E. P. A. Riddell) had only the 4/Northumberland Fusiliers in the front zone, with two companies disposed as outposts on the hook-shaped spur in which the Chemin des Dames ridge terminates, since it had been decided to hold as the real front a line of posts near the Reims - Corbeny road on the reverse slope. To this line, manned by a third company, the survivors of the bombardment withdrew, and there they checked the enemy’s advance. But, with the assistance of four tanks, he soon broke through and advanced against the Switch Line, held by three companies, the remaining company of the 4th and two of the 6/Northumberland Fusiliers. Brave resistance was offered; but here again enemy tanks turned and overwhelmed the right flank near Ville aux Bois, and the trenches were lost. Behind these, in the Battle Zone, lay four small French redoubts, including Centre Marceau, occupied by the headquarters of the 4th and 6/Northumberland Fusiliers and the two remaining companies of the latter. But by 6 a.m. the enemy had taken one of the redoubts and the Butte d’Edmond, a post on a knoll behind the left of the line, whose four machine guns had been knocked out by the bombardment. The other redoubts held out much longer; but finally all were surrounded and captured. Lieut. -Colonel B. D. Gibson of the 4/Northumberland Fusiliers was killed, and except for small parties, both this battalion and the 6th had ceased to exist.

 

You will probably also want to take a look at When the Lantern of Hope Burned Low, which is a fascinating first hand account of the 4/Northumberland Fusiliers.

https://archive.org/details/lanternofhope00calluoft

 

Good luck with your search

Peter