Foreign War Graves in CWGC Care

[Terry Denham]

CWGC look after war graves of 29 non-Commonwealth nations around the world from both world wars.

I now have access to the details of all the foreign war graves in CWGC care and I am happy to look up any details wanted by fellow Pals.

However, the records do not contain as much detail as for Commonwealth war graves - usually only name, nationality, service (army, navy, air force, civilian), date of death and grave number. A few records also contain service number and age while fewer still give regiment or ship. Only a handful have further information. Almost none contain the casualty's rank.

[Drafter]

Hi Terry saw your posting that you have access for getting details from the CWGC. Was wondering if you might be able to look up a name for me please. As I would greatly appreciate it.

Name: Eric James Bate

Service number: 55146

Rank: Lance-Serjeant

Military branch: Princess Patricia Canadian Light Infantry Canadian Expeditionary Forces

Regiment: Central Ontario A Company

Awards and honours: MM

Born: December 23 1890 in Hagley, Worcestershire, England

This is my great great uncle

Killed in action November 8 1917 Third Ypres Battle

This info I do know from CWGC and the Canada vetran affairs website. Was only wondering if you might be able to find out what ship he was on if mentioned? doesn't say on site. The MM that's listed there would there be any way of getting confermation if is this medal or any other medal when and where won? Its just that I only have his 1914-15 star medal don't where he won it or where says private on back. On a side note is there photos in the CWGC? Don't know what he looks like. I would be very interested to see a photo of him. Don't think my family has one as far as I know. Thank you very kindly again Drafter

[Terry Denham]

CWGC hold no further information on this man than is shown on their site at www.cwgc.org . They do not hold photos.

As a member of the Canadian forces he is not classified as a Foreign National and qualifies for Commonwealth War Grave status.

You should be able to trace his MM award in the London Gazette on-line at

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk

(although it is not always easy to use).

[egbert]

Hi Terry,

how about my everlasting inquiry?

[Mark Hone]

On our October tour I plan to lay a wreath at a German grave in CWGC care, probably at one of the cemeteries we are visiting to honour an old boy of the school (e.g. Brandhoek New, Lijssenthoek or Klein Vierstraat). It would be nice if we could find a soldier from Cologne, a city which our school has had very close links with since just after the Second World War when the German teacher, a remarkable refugee from Nazi persecution called Arnold Meier, established an exchange which continues to this day. Herr Meier died only a couple of years ago, in his 90's.

Unfortunately, as you point out Terry, there is usually no personal information to go with the register entry.

[egbert]

Mark,

Which exactly is the school near/in Cologne you have an exchange program with?

[Terry Denham]

Mark

You can get a little personal info (town etc) - sometimes - by cross referencing with the VdK site

[Mark Hone]

The school is the Neusprachliches Gymnasium Koln-Deutz, Dr. Meier's old school. The schools act as host on alternate years and play a game of football for the Baumsteiger Trophy. Dr Meier was a teacher at Bury Grammar School from 1941 until his retirement in 1967.

Our current Head of German will be accompanying this year's battlefields tour.

[Mark Hone]

Terry-We will probably do our formal act of remembrance at Brandhoek New Military where the most senior old boy of the school to die in the war is buried (Lt. Col Thomas Boardman DSO). I note that there are 28 German burials there, so if I can get hold of the names I will cross-refer them with the VdK site. I've never used it before. Thanks again for all your assistance with CWGC-related enquiries.

[dycer]

Terry,

Am I correct in saying that CWGC Cemetery Registers on-line do not automatically include foreign nationals whom they look after?

Reason I ask.My Home Town. Dyce in Aberdeen was an RAF Base during World War 2.I know that a German Aircrew are buried alongside their RAF colleagues but I think the Cemetery Register does not record the German's names.

Am I correct and if is so is there any reason for this?

Thanks

George

[egbert]

The school is the Neusprachliches Gymnasium Koln-Deutz

Here is the coincidence: I was a member of Neusprachliches Gymnasium Koeln (Cologne)-Porz and my Granddad is buried on CWGC Merville (Communal Annex)

[Terry Denham]

Dycer

You are correct.

CWGC is only obliged to maintain records of the names of WW1 & WW2 Commonwealth War Dead (plus WW2 Commonwealth Civilians killed through enemy action) and to make them available to the public.

However, they do also record all the names of Foreign Nationals in their Care and Non-World War Graves in their Care. These names do not appear on their public website (yet!).

I have access to all these records (about 40,000 Foreign Nationals and about 20,000 Non-World War) if you ever want the details.

CWGC will produce a print-out of these names for you if you so wish and did, indeed, start to include them in the computer produced registers published 1998/2000ish - but now no longer produced.

[Terry Denham]

Egbert

I have enquired today about your grandad with CWGC....

They have written to VdK for confirmation and details so that they can update the Foreign Nationals section of their database now that he has an identified headstone.

However, they are still awaiting a reply. It seems VdK take a very long time to reply. That is where the blockage is.

[Mark Hone]

Egbert-Is this the same school or an associated one?

[egbert]

Mark -it's not associated neither the same; it's just the same type of College(Oberstufe Gymnasium) in an adjacent suburb of Cologne where I spent most of my youth.

Terry - I don't know why VdK is so "slow". Does it help if I scan you the official VdK letter to me which explains/ acknowledges the erection of the new headstone. I can provide you with all further data you might need. Or simply go into KIA site of VdK and you will find the data and CWGC grave info from Granddad.

[Terry Denham]

No Egbert. It won't.

It needs a letter/email from VdK to CWGC to change the data. CWGC cannot change/add the details of a Foreign National except on the instruction of the authorities in that country. Apparently they are often this slow.

If you contact VdK and tell them to get a move on, it may help.

[dycer]

Terry,

Thank you for the reply.I know the graves are well maintained and at Rembrance time no distinction is made.

I remember some time ago a relative of one of the German airman stumbled on his grave by accident.

From your reply though, it seems that the CWGC will provide full details for all in the future.

George

[harribobs]

Terry

would you have a look for two names for me please!!!

they are both in souda bay cemetary, with no detail on their stones other than a maltese cross

johann trojer and carl wagner

thanks

chris

[Terry Denham]

As you can see below, little is known of them - not even the correct date of death.

TROJER, Civilian, JOHANN, German Civilian. 3rd September 1939 - 31st December 1947. Plot 11 Row E Grave 18

WAGNER, Civilian, CARL, German Civilian. 3rd September 1939 - 31st December 1947. Plot 11 Row E Grave 17

[harribobs]

Thanks Terry

more questions than answers really,

german children dying after the war end? reprisals?

hmmm

thanks again

chris

[N.S.Regt.]

Drafter

Pte. E.G. Bate is in the book on Canadian recipents of the MM his L.G. date is 9 July 1917 hope this helps.

Best regards N.S.regt.

[Drafter]

Thanks for the info I didn't know that he was in that book I know that he did win the MM then for being at Vimy Ridge I have the citation for it had one interpretation done on it and was told April 9, 1917 I think they were at Vimy Ridge in April. The question was is did he actually earned on April 9th and then physically received on July 9th. Also saw the medal index card from the NA which shows he got July 9th actually I should also say that on the MM citation does July 9th but on the orders for it the person who interpreted for me though the orders were indicating July 9th.

Do you know the name of the book of the MM Receipients? I was thinking maybe I can find it on the Collections Canada website under their military publications on Nominal Rolls and Roll of Honours I found that Eric is listed in the CEF Roll of Honour and CEF Nominal Roll sailing lists. Do you know where I can get a copy of that book? How did you find out that he was listed there? Thanks again for the help I greatly appreciate it.

Drafter

[TD60]

Hello

Do you have something about L.E. Renault :

link to a photo of his grave in Faubourg d'Amiens cemetery (Arras) :

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/tanneguy.desplanques/gg/eservices/interprete%20fr.htm

Best Regards

[Drafter]

N.S. Regt. just wanted to say thanks for that info how did you find out about that? Do you have the book? Actually his middle intial is J not G it's EJ Bate not EG Bate. His rank was Private when he won the MM his last rank before he was KIA was Lance Serjeant. Would you be able to look that up again for me to see if EJ Bate is there or not? His full name is Eric James Bate I would greatly appreciate any further help on this. Thanks very kindly.

[Terry Denham]

Do you have something about L.E. Renault :

251967[/snapback]

The only information held by CWGC on this French soldier is

Louis Eugene RENAULT

Died 04.06.16

Grave 8.A.20