Air Line Company, Royal Engineers

[Jon Shattock]

Please can anyone tell me what function an Air Line Company in the RE did.

Cheers

Jon

[ian turner]

Jon,

Just a guess, but perhaps maintaining the airsupply to the tunneling

sections?

Ian

[Muerrisch]

No, these people were responsible for the wires along which signals, telephones etc were transmitted IN THE AIR, ie not below ground. Think any French village, festooned with cables on posts strung here there and everywhere.

[Terry_Reeves]

David is quite right. An airline section consisted of the following :

Telegraphists office

Telegraphists (permanent line)

Permanent linesmen

Airlinemen

Wiremen

A Wheeler

A Blacksmith

A Fitter

An Instrument repairer

Pioneers (for general duties)

Terry Reeves

Edited 30 December , 2005 by Terry_Reeves

[Jon Shattock]

Many thanks. It's obvious when you're told!

I take it that the signal companies did the work along or below ground whilst the airline companies did the lines above? Or were they both signal companies?

Quite a dangerous job, I imagine. Or were air lines reserved for the areas well behind the front line? I would think a guy going up a pole could attract quite a bit of shell fire and he'd certainly feel rather exposed (I can't imagine repairs could wait until night). Judging by the number on the market, signal company personnel seem to have got a lot of gallantry awards and I shold think the air line company men must have earned proportionally even more.

Jon

[Stebie9173]

Signal companies worked predominately above ground.

The signalling duties were (very basically as follows)

Battalion level - Signallers within the Infantry (et al.) battalion and not part of the Royal Engineers. Basic signalling including runners, semaphore.

Brigade to Divisional level - Royal Engineers Divisional Signal Companies. Buried telephone cables, occasional above ground cables (usually suspended on short poles. These were used to communicate with forward battalion HQs during offensives). Also used pigeons, dogs, semaphore and cables laid along and across the trenches themselves.

Divisional to Corps level - Royal Engineers Corps Signal Companies (which start to include Airline Sections). Telegraph poles, despatch riders, etc.

Inter-Army level - Royal Engineers Army Signal Companies. Telegraph poles, despatch riders, etc.

Air lines would be almost exclusively behind the lines from Corps level upwards. (I suspect my great-grandfather may have been one because he did the same job for the PO after the war, despite being a brickyard worker before the war)

As an example of Signal company gallantry, two men of the 12th Divisional Signal Company won MMs at Cambrai for laying a telephone cable through a wood under gas shell fire for 22 hours (8 of which while in gas clouds and wearing the horribly uncomfortable gas masks of the time)

Steve.

[Jon Shattock]

Steve, thanks - very interesting and useful info.

Most of the gallantry medals I have seen have been to divisional signal company personnel, and now I understand why.

Jon

[Le_Treport]

My Grandfather was a Sapper in the RE - in an airline unit.

The only thing I know about what he did is what he told my father. He would ride a horse along the open country with the wire he is laying in a hook at the end of a long pole. His job was to ensure it was high enough to be out of harms way.

[Le_Treport]

As a follow up.... Can anyone suggest how best to research my Grandfather's time in the RE? I have his record from Kew, and medal card, but I believe RE were attached to various units spread all over the place. I would like to find out where he actually served. All I know is that it was in F & F. Thanks.

[Jon Shattock]

If his service record tells you the RE units he served with (ie which airline section) you may be able to find the war diary for the unit (WO 95 series). This will tell you what the unit was doing each day, although it is very unlikely to name your grandfather.

If you go to the NA's online catalogue and type in "air line" you get three hits (48, 68 and 69 Motor Air Line Sections). Playing around with some different word combinations may get you some more, if none of these are relevant.

Jon

[Terry_Reeves]

Le Treport

The description you give sounds very much like a Cable section, rather than an airline unit. They could lay ground cable a quite high speeds. In the early days of the war, just such a method was used to lay signal cable on the tops of hedgerows.

Terry Reeves

Edited 30 December , 2005 by Terry_Reeves

[Graham Stewart]

Most of these units were supplied by the TF pre-war. The Airline, Cable and Wireless units were all attached to the Command's i.e. Northern Command etc;-

East Anglian Divisional Signal Coy.

Highland Divisional Signal Coy.

East Lancashire Divisional Signal Coy.

West Lancashire(The St.Helens)Divisional Signal Coy.

London Air Line Signal Coy.

London Cable Signal Coy.

London Wireless Signal Coy.

1st London Divisional Signal Coy.

Lowland Divisional Signal Coy.

Northern Air Line Signal Coy.

Northern Cable Signal Coy.

Northern Wireless Signal Coy.

North Midland Divisional Signal Coy.

Northumbrian Divisional Signal Coy.

Scottish Air Line Signal Coy.

Scottish Cable Signal Coy.

Scottish Wireless Signal Coy.

Southern Air Line Signal Coy.

Southern Cable Signal Coy.

Southern Wireless Signal Coy.

South Midland Divisional Signal Coy.

Welsh Divisional Signal Coy.

West Riding Divisional Signal Coy.

Wessex Divisional Signal Coy.

Western Air Line Signal Coy.

Western Cable Signal Coy.

Western Wireless Signal Coy.

Edited 31 December , 2005 by Graham Stewart

[Le_Treport]

Can confimr what you say Graham. My G'father was with the Territorials in the Scottish Air Line Signal Co and had to be discharged from them, then reinlisted the next day! Why not a simple transfer?

Thanks to the other replies - on looking at his army record, it records that he served as follwos:-

Posted to 13 Air Line Section 27. 5.15

Posted to General Head Quarters Group 2 H.A.R 3. 6.15

Posted to C Company, Head Quarters Signal Corps 13. 6.15

Posted to 13 Air Line Section 18. 2.18

Posted to FC Head Quarters Signal Company 18. 2.18

So I guess a trip to Kew armed with that information is in order!

My father recounts what his father told him:

"The Air-line men were those who strung up cable along hedges or between trees using a thin cable called D3 or a thicker one called D8. They would have a big reel of cable on a wagon which rolled out as the wagon went along then a man on horseback would guide the cable onto the hedge or tree. He did this with a thing called a crook stick which was a stick with a small horseshoe shaped loop on the end to guild the cable . the common problem was that if the cable caught on the end of the stick the rider was whipped off the horse"

Edited 31 December , 2005 by Le_Treport

[William Bryce]

Hi Alisdair,

Can you check the post of Raster Scannings under "Soldiers" for Mar 4, 2003? It shows a picture of my father, William Bryce, with a tool on his saddle, which we originally thought was a sword. Does this look like the "crook stick" mentioned by your grandfather? I believe he was in the RE's but I'm having difficulty identifying his service number.

Cheers,

Bill Bryce

[Guest janism]

During 1908 - 1913 my grandfather served with the RE Scottish Air Line Signal Co as a Sapper. Before that he served with the 1st Lanarkshire RE. Although I have not been able to find his records for WW 1, I did find his records from 1908 - 1913 in with the 1st World War Burnt documents. From family stories, I know he served during the 1st World War, and also know that he did come in contact with the gas, as he suffered after the war, and died at the young age of 36, in 1925 from stomach cancer, which my family believed was caused by the gas. His number while with the Territorial Force was 6668. That number cannot be found anywhere in the Medal Cards.

My question, is would his number have changed, and what unit could he have been place in?

Hoping for a push in the right direction.

[Terry_Reeves]

janism

What is his name please?

TR

[JLB]

On 08/11/2015 at 22:50, Guest janism said:

During 1908 - 1913 my grandfather served with the RE Scottish Air Line Signal Co as a Sapper. Before that he served with the 1st Lanarkshire RE. Although I have not been able to find his records for WW 1, I did find his records from 1908 - 1913 in with the 1st World War Burnt documents. From family stories, I know he served during the 1st World War, and also know that he did come in contact with the gas, as he suffered after the war, and died at the young age of 36, in 1925 from stomach cancer, which my family believed was caused by the gas. His number while with the Territorial Force was 6668. That number cannot be found anywhere in the Medal Cards.

My question, is would his number have changed, and what unit could he have been place in?

Hoping for a push in the right direction.

 

My Grandfather John Elder was the soldier mentioned above.

 

Along with the previous information, would there also be any photographs anywhere of the Air Line Signal Co, or the Lanarkshire Rifles.  I'm planning on a trip back to Scotland hopefully this summer, and was hoping to check out some places that might have this information. 

Thank you for any help in this matter.

[Michelle Young]

JLB, unfortunately Jainism is no longer a member of the forum, as denoted by guest. 

 

Michelle  

[JLB]

On 08/11/2015 at 22:50, Guest janism said:

During 1908 - 1913 my grandfather served with the RE Scottish Air Line Signal Co as a Sapper. Before that he served with the 1st Lanarkshire RE. Although I have not been able to find his records for WW 1, I did find his records from 1908 - 1913 in with the 1st World War Burnt documents. From family stories, I know he served during the 1st World War, and also know that he did come in contact with the gas, as he suffered after the war, and died at the young age of 36, in 1925 from stomach cancer, which my family believed was caused by the gas. His number while with the Territorial Force was 6668. That number cannot be found anywhere in the Medal Cards.

My question, is would his number have changed, and what unit could he have been place in?

Hoping for a push in the right direction.

 

My Grandfather John Elder was the soldier mentioned above.

 

Along with the previous information, would there also be any photographs anywhere of the Air Line Signal Co, or the Lanarkshire Rifles.  I'm planning on a trip back to Scotland hopefully this summer, and was hoping to check out some places that might have this information. 

Thank you for any help in this matter.

Thank you Michelle.

 

 

[brianmorris547]

JLB

The only John Elder I have in my 1916 RE index is 1694 (later 422486) John H Elder. He is named in the War Diary of 416 Field Company RE (1/1 Edinburgh FC of 56 Division) on 16/09/1916 as one of four men wounded by shell fire and evacuated to the Field Ambulance as 1694 L/Cpl J Elder. His name appears in the Times Official Casualty List 04/11/1916 under RE wounded as Elder, 1694 L/Cpl J H. Do you know any more about him.

Brian 

Edited 16 March , 2019 by brianmorris547

[JLB]

Thank you Brian. I will check that out. 

 

I only have his records from before the 1st World War.  They were in the Burnt Documents, so I figure at one time were in the same file as his 1st World War papers, but unfortunately the latter did not survive.  

 

He was born in Glasgow in 1888, and died in 1925, of stomach cancer.  His parents were Thomas and Mary Elder, and his wife was Margaret Campbell.  My uncle had told me that he thought he built bridges during the war, but I don't know how true that is.

 

 

[brianmorris547]

There are two 1916 hospital admissions for 1694 J Elder on FMP. I will not be able to see them until I am in the library on Tuesday. It should give his age. In 1916 your man would have been 27. Many RE Units were employed on bridging operations in 1918 as the Armies advanced. 

Brian

EDIT:

MH 106/708 - 34 CCS - Adm 16/09/1916 - 56 Div RE 1/1 L F Co - Elder, J H - shows age 31 -  Religion Pres - wound left hand to sick convoy 17/09/1916.

MH 106/957 - 2 GH - Adm 22/09/1916 - 1/1 Edinburgh FC - Elder, J H - Age 31. Category V111-1 (V111 is Gunshot wounds of the upper extremeties, 1 is simple flesh contusions and wounds) - left hand - Discharge to Duty 05/10/1916.

The age does not fit your John Elder.

Brian

 

Edited 19 March , 2019 by brianmorris547

[Terry_Reeves]

There were only three types of RE units involved in bridge building, Field Companies, Army Troops Companies and later on in the war Tunneling Companies.

 

TR

 

[brianmorris547]

Thanks Terry

I did recently read a WD of a Field Company from a TF Division who were employed on Bridge building and maintenance in the Dunkirk area in 1916 rather than bridging rivers in the course of the later advances. I am trying to find it again. One man was awarded the DCM, I think, for making repairs under shell fire and stopping the bridge being washed away. I trawled through all 158 pages of the RE DCM Citations yesterday to try and identify the man and his Unit but to no avail. It's annnoying me because I remember reading it. There are a number of citations for awards involving bridging. When I wrote many RE Units were employed I meant many Field Companies.

Brian

Edited 18 March , 2019 by brianmorris547
typo

[JLB]

Hoping someone sees this again. 

 

I have found a possibility of my grandfather in the first world war.  John D. Elder Regimental # 27515. (Started as a Sapper and ended as a Sgt.) 

 

Is there any way of finding out through his regimental number if he was from Scotland, and maybe even where in Scotland?  This particular John D. Elder does not appear to have any records that survived, but I did find him through the medal lists.   As I had mention in a previous post, that I had found some of my grandfather's (pre) WW 1 papers in the Burnt Documents with the Regimental # 6668. I had been told by family that my grandfather did indeed serve in the first world war, and that he was an Engineer.

 

Last June, I visited the Regimental Office of the Royal Engineers on Jardine Street in Glasgow. They were amazing in what they showed me and gave me a lovely print of the uniforms of the 1st Lanarkshire RE.  Unfortunately, they didn't have a photo, nor any 1st World War information on him. 

 

I would really love to know if there is any way of connecting the regimental number to one place or another.  

 

Janice