paul guthrie Posted 27 December , 2005 Share Posted 27 December , 2005 (edited) In Old Soldiers Never Die he says they sang 6 verses to this hymn, the first: John Wesley had a little dog He was so very thin He took him to the gates of hell And threw the ******* in What did these men have against John Wesley? Or, read another way, what did they have against little dogs? What are the other 5 verses? Thanks! Looking at this a word has been turned to asterisks, it's the word commonly used for a person born to unmarried parents, common then at least. Edited 27 December , 2005 by paul guthrie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 27 December , 2005 Share Posted 27 December , 2005 bastardy gets by Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciaran Byrne Posted 27 December , 2005 Share Posted 27 December , 2005 Here's the tune: http://www.cyberhymnal.org/mid/s/t/a/st_anne.mid Here's the real words: Our God, our help in ages past, Our hope for years to come, Our shelter from the stormy blast, And our eternal home. Under the shadow of Thy throne Thy saints have dwelt secure; Sufficient is Thine arm alone, And our defense is sure. Before the hills in order stood, Or earth received her frame, From everlasting Thou art God, To endless years the same. Thy Word commands our flesh to dust, “Return, ye sons of men:” All nations rose from earth at first, And turn to earth again. A thousand ages in Thy sight Are like an evening gone; Short as the watch that ends the night Before the rising sun. The busy tribes of flesh and blood, With all their lives and cares, Are carried downwards by the flood, And lost in following years. Time, like an ever rolling stream, Bears all its sons away; They fly, forgotten, as a dream Dies at the opening day. Like flowery fields the nations stand Pleased with the morning light; The flowers beneath the mower’s hand Lie withering ere ‘tis night. Our God, our help in ages past, Our hope for years to come, Be Thou our guard while troubles last, And our eternal home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthergw Posted 28 December , 2005 Share Posted 28 December , 2005 In Old Soldiers Never Die he says they sang 6 verses to this hymn, the first: John Wesley had a little dog He was so very thin He took him to the gates of hell And threw the ******* in What did these men have against John Wesley? Or, read another way, what did they have against little dogs? What are the other 5 verses? Thanks! Looking at this a word has been turned to asterisks, it's the word commonly used for a person born to unmarried parents, common then at least. Is it definitely the original John Wesley that is meant? It was common to name boys after him in the appropriate communities. For instance, I believe there was a famous American gunman named John Wesley Hardin. I'm not sure the Non-Conformists would rush to claim him as one of their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul guthrie Posted 28 December , 2005 Author Share Posted 28 December , 2005 I am confident the song refers to the original Wesley. Getting no answers from the experts, I asked my secretary/bestpal Martha who their ire is for. Her qualifications? Well she's lived to age 68, is from way up a hollow in deepest remote Kentucky, Magoffin County, and still takes classes at UK where tuition is free for those over 65. People have actually gotten advanced degrees this way. Anyway, she says it's Wesley they are after, not little dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 28 December , 2005 Share Posted 28 December , 2005 Could it be that Wesley was not fond of small animals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthergw Posted 28 December , 2005 Share Posted 28 December , 2005 I am confident the song refers to the original Wesley. Getting no answers from the experts, I asked my secretary/bestpal Martha who their ire is for. Her qualifications? Well she's lived to age 68, is from way up a hollow in deepest remote Kentucky, Magoffin County, and still takes classes at UK where tuition is free for those over 65. People have actually gotten advanced degrees this way. Anyway, she says it's Wesley they are after, not little dogs. I have lived to be not much younger than Martha. I did NOT get this age by challenging ladies like her. I yield the field and send Martha and yourself Season's Greetings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul guthrie Posted 28 December , 2005 Author Share Posted 28 December , 2005 I would love to read the lyrics to the other 5 verses but had little hope; lost to time I fear. We owe a lot to the very few true OR men who left accounts, not to denigrate Manning and others but nor really working class like Richards, George Ashulst, Donald Fraser, Will R Bird and of all those Ashulst is my favorite, My Bit A Lancashire Fusilier At War, what a book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 28 December , 2005 Share Posted 28 December , 2005 What about a pm to langleybaston? - he might have the remainder of the verses in his info on Frank Richards and the RWF or might be able to point you in the right direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 28 December , 2005 Share Posted 28 December , 2005 Would that I had ...... no such luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 28 December , 2005 Share Posted 28 December , 2005 Making up alternative words to hymn verses was very much in vogue in WW1 and before - most people knew the tunes. Shame Frank Richards verses don't survive- the remaining one is a gem though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted 28 December , 2005 Share Posted 28 December , 2005 Like ' When this b l o o d y war is over' which is sung to the hymn tune ' What a friend we have in Jesus ' soldiers hi-jacked any tune going and made up words to suit. Aye Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 28 December , 2005 Share Posted 28 December , 2005 this via Google: Still, I shall never forget Rufus Spooner, the tall, lean, fiery fellow who touched me and torched me that afternoon. He claimed to stand in the tradition of John Wesley, and he was telling us stories of how Christians in the Methodist heritage continued to "fight the good fight of the faith." (1 Timothy 6:12) The gist of his story was that we must never waver on account of discouragement or capitulate in despair or surrender through fear. The illustration that gripped us was his vivid depiction of a gentle, small dog dragged unwillingly into contending with a slavering Doberman. The conclusion that climaxed it all and thereafter seared itself upon my mind and heart was, "Remember! What counts isn't the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog!" Hence, John Wesley had a little dog etc ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul guthrie Posted 28 December , 2005 Author Share Posted 28 December , 2005 Making up alternative words to hymn verses was very much in vogue in WW1 and before - most people knew the tunes. Shame Frank Richards verses don't survive- the remaining one is a gem though. It is a gem oh great nut eating tree living one! It made me want to hear the rest so badly, especially since Richards says something like it gets racier verse by verse. I knew if David didn't have this it was unlikely anyone did but thanks to him for what he found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeppoSapone Posted 28 December , 2005 Share Posted 28 December , 2005 In Old Soldiers Never Die he says they sang 6 verses to this hymn, the first: John Wesley had a little dog He was so very thin He took him to the gates of hell And threw the ******* in What did these men have against John Wesley? John Wesley was the founder of Methodism. Methodists were, in theory, tee-total. Less so today, but even now "Methodist Recorder" is not allowed to run any advertising that mentions booze, or gambling. IMHO, having read in Frank Richard's book about his time in India how the members of the RWF liked a drop of 'purge' John Wesley would have been regarded, at the very least, as 'an acute feeling of discomfort in the region of the gluteus maximus'. No doubt they sang the song when they had 'had a few'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul guthrie Posted 28 December , 2005 Author Share Posted 28 December , 2005 Tony after reading Old Soldiers several times I think it safe to say that Frank did like a drink and was actively hostile to religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyHollinger Posted 28 December , 2005 Share Posted 28 December , 2005 Confused as I am in this thread... it has brought back a wonderful him to remember and to be proud to be of English heritage ... these are the hymns that will take you through horrid timies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 29 December , 2005 Share Posted 29 December , 2005 Single men in barracks are not plaster saints indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marina Posted 29 December , 2005 Share Posted 29 December , 2005 this via Google: Still, I shall never forget Rufus Spooner, the tall, lean, fiery fellow who touched me and torched me that afternoon. He claimed to stand in the tradition of John Wesley, and he was telling us stories of how Christians in the Methodist heritage continued to "fight the good fight of the faith." (1 Timothy 6:12) The gist of his story was that we must never waver on account of discouragement or capitulate in despair or surrender through fear. The illustration that gripped us was his vivid depiction of a gentle, small dog dragged unwillingly into contending with a slavering Doberman. The conclusion that climaxed it all and thereafter seared itself upon my mind and heart was, "Remember! What counts isn't the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog!" Hence, John Wesley had a little dog etc ..... That's a wonderfful story! And it casts the soldiers' version in a wickedly ironic light. Love it! Marina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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