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Scottish Rifles


Guest Lynda Welch
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Guest Lynda Welch

Hello - I am a new Canadian member of this forum researching information about my great grandfather, Pte. James Morris Jones # 12628 with the Scottish Rifles, and I believe the 3rd batallion. What is confusing to me is I think that this battillion did not leave Great Britain (if I read information on this website correctly). James was a sniper who was injured around March 15, 1915 (I have his xray in my file) and hospitalized following a battle in Bologne France before being transfered to Boscombe Hospital in Hampshire, England. He was discharged 30/11/1915.

I also have a distant uncle, "3212 Sapper" William McCutcheon, who died as a POW - apparently captured by the "Turks". My family has no information on when he died or where he is buried, though I have correspondence that they tried to find out.

I have quite a number of papers in my files - am not sure if scanned copies of these would be of interest to anyone.

If anyone can guide me on what more I can or should be searching for to verify or add to my geneaolgical information, it would be appreciated, or how I can confirm information about his battillion. It is hard to do this research from Canada.

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Lynda,

According to the Commonwealth War Graves Commission Sapper 3212 William McCutcheon died on 27 June 1916 and is buried in grave No19, Row M, Plot XX1, Baghdad (North Gate) War Cemetery.

Fred

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Lynda,

According to the Commonwealth War Graves Commission Sapper 3212 William McCutcheon died on 27 June 1916 and is buried in grave No19, Row M, Plot XX1, Baghdad (North Gate) War Cemetery.

Fred

You beat me to it Fred :D

Roger.

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Guest Lynda Welch
Hello - I am a new Canadian member of this forum researching information about my great grandfather, Pte. James Morris Jones # 12628 with the Scottish Rifles, and I believe the 3rd batallion. What is confusing to me is I think that this battillion did not leave Great Britain (if I read information on this website correctly). James was a sniper who was injured around March 15, 1915 (I have his xray in my file) and hospitalized following a battle in Bologne France before being transfered to Boscombe Hospital in Hampshire, England. He was discharged 30/11/1915.

I also have a distant uncle, "3212 Sapper" William McCutcheon, who died as a POW - apparently captured by the "Turks". My family has no information on when he died or where he is buried, though I have correspondence that they tried to find out.

I have quite a number of papers in my files - am not sure if scanned copies of these would be of interest to anyone.

If anyone can guide me on what more I can or should be searching for to verify or add to my geneaolgical information, it would be appreciated, or how I can confirm information about his battillion. It is hard to do this research from Canada.

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Guest Lynda Welch
Lynda,

According to the Commonwealth War Graves Commission Sapper 3212 William McCutcheon died on 27 June 1916 and is buried in grave No19, Row M, Plot XX1, Baghdad (North Gate) War Cemetery.

Fred

Fred - I had goosebumps when I read your prompt reply to this post - after all these years not knowing where this man who died so very young has rested. Thank you so much!

Hello - I am a new Canadian member of this forum researching information about my great grandfather, Pte. James Morris Jones # 12628 with the Scottish Rifles, and I believe the 3rd batallion. What is confusing to me is I think that this battillion did not leave Great Britain (if I read information on this website correctly). James was a sniper who was injured around March 15, 1915 (I have his xray in my file) and hospitalized following a battle in Bologne France before being transfered to Boscombe Hospital in Hampshire, England. He was discharged 30/11/1915.

I also have a distant uncle, "3212 Sapper" William McCutcheon, who died as a POW - apparently captured by the "Turks". My family has no information on when he died or where he is buried, though I have correspondence that they tried to find out.

I have quite a number of papers in my files - am not sure if scanned copies of these would be of interest to anyone.

If anyone can guide me on what more I can or should be searching for to verify or add to my geneaolgical information, it would be appreciated, or how I can confirm information about his battillion. It is hard to do this research from Canada.

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According to Scottish National War Memorial he was with 2/2 Lowland Field Company RE. which became 413th Field Company RE in 52nd Lowland Division.

Surname McCUTCHEON

Firstname William

Service Number 3212

Date Death 27/06/1916

Decoration

Place of birth

Other 2/2nd Low. Field Coy.

SNWM roll THE ROYAL ENGINEERS

Rank Spr

Theatre of death Egypt.

Aye

Malcolm

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Guest Lynda Welch
According to Scottish National War Memorial he was with 2/2 Lowland Field Company RE. which became 413th Field Company RE in 52nd Lowland Division.

Surname McCUTCHEON

Firstname William

Service Number 3212

Date Death 27/06/1916

Decoration

Place of birth

Other 2/2nd Low. Field Coy.

SNWM roll THE ROYAL ENGINEERS

Rank Spr

Theatre of death Egypt.

Aye

Malcolm

thanks so much Malcolm - am still struggling how to work this forum - does not appear that I can post a common reply to everyone so will thank each individually.

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Lynda:

If you do not already have it, here is a link to James Jones' (#12628, Scottish Rifles) MIC card, a copy of which you can purchase online and it will immediately be e-mailed to you. Simply follow the instructions. The card will tell you what James' medal entitlements were and may show when he arrived in France, etc.

Chris

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...1&resultcount=1

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Guest Lynda Welch
Lynda:

If you do not already have it, here is a link to James Jones' (#12628, Scottish Rifles) MIC card, a copy of which you can purchase online and it will immediately be e-mailed to you. Simply follow the instructions. The card will tell you what James' medal entitlements were and may show when he arrived in France, etc.

Chris

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...1&resultcount=1

Thanks Chris - no I did not know that this could be done online - I have just purchased these records!

Edited by Lynda Welch
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Lynda

Whilst the 3rd (Reserve) Battalion, Regular, of the Cameronians (Scottish Rifles) stayed in the UK during the war, it did supply drafts to the Regular battalions overseas. Therefore, if this approach holds true, your great-grandfather, 12628 Pte. James Morris Jones, was posted to either the 1st or 2nd Battalion of the Scottish Rifles.

Now, you say he was wounded in a battle near Boulogne on or around 15 March 1915. Both the 1st and 2nd Battalions were on the Western Front at this time. The 1st arrived at Havre on 15th August 1914 and the 2nd arrived, also at Havre, on 5th August 1914.

In March 1915, the 1st was part of the 19th Brigade, 6th Division. At the same time, the 2nd was part of the 23rd Brigade, 8th Division.

The 1st was not involved in a major battle or engagement on or about 15 March 1915. Ray Westlake's book British Battalions on the Western Front: January to June 1915, includes the following statement regarding the 1st Battalion:

Began tours in trenches near Bois-Gremier 2nd January. Remained in these positions, resting in billets near Bois-Grenier when out of line. Located at Gris-Pot 4th-8th February and 6th-10th April.(p.102)

Your great grandfather could have been in the 1st Battalion and wounded in the normal course of a frontline tour. However, it is also likely he was in the 2nd Battalion and took part in the Battle of Neuve Chapelle (east of Boulogne). This battle occurred over 10-12 March 1915. Here is a further extract from Ray Westlake's book, this time regarding the 2nd Battalion:

Took part in the attack on Neuve Chapelle 10th. Colonel H.H. Story, MC records in his history of the Cameronians how there was an "eerie silence" when the first waves went over the top at 8.05am. But - "Then, with a sound of a nest of giant hornets suddenly let loose the air was filled with streams of lead from German machine guns and rifles". Soon, all company officers were casualties, the men being led by what NCOs were left. Enemy's first and second lines taken and Battalion later held positions astride Signpost Lane. Relieved during night 14th-15th and to billets on the La Bassee-Estaires road near Rouge-Croix. The Battalion comprising just 150 men led by a second-lieutenant and the RSM. Colonel Story records total casualties as - 469 killed, wounded and missing.(p.102)

A search of the Scottish National War Memorial data base reveals a large number of Cameronian deaths on 10 March 1915. Among these are several soldiers with regimental numbers in the 12000s. Two are close to your great-grandfathers: 12683 Cpl. J Lee and 12693 L/Cpl. W Parks.

It is possible your great-grandfather was wounded in the Battle of Neuve Chapelle some time between 10-12 March or in the days immediately after and before the 2nd Battalion was relieved on the night of 14/15th March.

Hope this assists.

Chris

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Guest Lynda Welch
Lynda

Whilst the 3rd (Reserve) Battalion, Regular, of the Cameronians (Scottish Rifles) stayed in the UK during the war, it did supply drafts to the Regular battalions overseas. Therefore, if this approach holds true, your great-grandfather, 12628 Pte. James Morris Jones, was posted to either the 1st or 2nd Battalion of the Scottish Rifles.

Now, you say he was wounded in a battle near Boulogne on or around 15 March 1915. Both the 1st and 2nd Battalions were on the Western Front at this time. The 1st arrived at Havre on 15th August 1914 and the 2nd arrived, also at Havre, on 5th August 1914.

In March 1915, the 1st was part of the 19th Brigade, 6th Division. At the same time, the 2nd was part of the 23rd Brigade, 8th Division.

The 1st was not involved in a major battle or engagement on or about 15 March 1915. Ray Westlake's book British Battalions on the Western Front: January to June 1915, includes the following statement regarding the 1st Battalion:

Began tours in trenches near Bois-Gremier 2nd January. Remained in these positions, resting in billets near Bois-Grenier when out of line. Located at Gris-Pot 4th-8th February and 6th-10th April.(p.102)

Your great grandfather could have been in the 1st Battalion and wounded in the normal course of a frontline tour. However, it is also likely he was in the 2nd Battalion and took part in the Battle of Neuve Chapelle (east of Boulogne). This battle occurred over 10-12 March 1915. Here is a further extract from Ray Westlake's book, this time regarding the 2nd Battalion:

Took part in the attack on Neuve Chapelle 10th. Colonel H.H. Story, MC records in his history of the Cameronians how there was an "eerie silence" when the first waves went over the top at 8.05am. But - "Then, with a sound of a nest of giant hornets suddenly let loose the air was filled with streams of lead from German machine guns and rifles". Soon, all company officers were casualties, the men being led by what NCOs were left. Enemy's first and second lines taken and Battalion later held positions astride Signpost Lane. Relieved during night 14th-15th and to billets on the La Bassee-Estaires road near Rouge-Croix. The Battalion comprising just 150 men led by a second-lieutenant and the RSM. Colonel Story records total casualties as - 469 killed, wounded and missing.(p.102)

A search of the Scottish National War Memorial data base reveals a large number of Cameronian deaths on 10 March 1915. Among these are several soldiers with regimental numbers in the 12000s. Two are close to your great-grandfathers: 12683 Cpl. J Lee and 12693 L/Cpl. W Parks.

It is possible your great-grandfather was wounded in the Battle of Neuve Chapelle some time between 10-12 March or in the days immediately after and before the 2nd Battalion was relieved on the night of 14/15th March.

Hope this assists.

Chris

Thanks Chris - yes, it appears that it was the Battle of Neuve Chapelle was the one he was in - in a separate post/section, I quoted a memorandum I have in my files that gives more detail - and received a reply with that information. He was lucky to survive this attack, given the number of casulaties - actually lived until 1954 but with shrapnel in his chest. Thanks for your information - much appreciated.

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