Guest Carolyn Posted 23 August , 2003 Share Posted 23 August , 2003 The reason I became interested in the Great War is because of a pile of old papers left when my Gran died. As an indirect result of this (one of those chain reaction things, ie one thing leads to another), I discovered that my great grandfather was killed in WW1. Until about two months ago I didn't even know what his name was (he was not married to my great grandmother which made things slightly more complicated), but now I have quite a lot of information. Anyway, to cut a long story short, I have a lot of photographs from my Gran's collection which I never knew existed until her death. Quite a few of these are of various relatives in uniform, and I wondered if anyone had any general tips on identifying what era they were from - in particular, are there any major differences in uniform between WW1 and WW2? Some of these pictures have names and dates written on the back but others don't (4 of them). I suspect that one of these pictures could be of my great grandfather but don't know who, so I am trying to narrow down the options. Carolyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armourersergeant Posted 23 August , 2003 Share Posted 23 August , 2003 All i could suggest is if you have a scanner to post some for some of our uniform experts to have a gander at and they maybe able to help you. regards Arm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munce Posted 23 August , 2003 Share Posted 23 August , 2003 A major change of uniform design came into effect in 1937; some differences between WW1 and WW2 era uniforms include: 1. Length of jacket. WW1 jackets came down to about mid-thigh, whereas WW2 jackets were much shorter, coming down only until the waist. 2. Puttees / gaitors. In WW1 soldiers used long strips of material called puttees which were wound round the top of the boot and up the leg to about mid-calf. In WW2, these were replaced by gaitors, which were a single piece of canvas about six inches wide. 3. Webbing. WW1 ammunition pouches were either two made of leather, one either side of a leather belt, or five smaller ones made of webbing each side of the webbing belt. In WW2, equipment was only made from webbing, and two large rectangular ammunition pouches were carried, one on each side of the belt buckle, clipped on half-way up the pouch. 4. Hat. Most soldiers in WW1 era wore a soft cloth cap with a peak (when not wearing a helmet). In WW2, the most common type of cap was a side cap, which was perched on the right side of the head and did not have a peak. Hope this helps, but like Arm said, the best thing to do would be to post the pictures here, as there were so many changes in uniform styles througout both wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 23 August , 2003 Share Posted 23 August , 2003 However, just to confuse matters, a lot of WW1 gear was reissued in the early years of WW2.I have a photo of my grandfather taken in France in Dec.1939 and he looks like he's wearing th uniform of an earlier generation (knee length puttees, SD uniform,'08 webbing, etc.). However, I know that he had been issued with the 1937 patt."Battledress" uniform and '37 pattern webbing by the time of the German attack in May 1940. (He was TA). Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 24 August , 2003 Share Posted 24 August , 2003 As Dave suggest, it isn't always clear cut - I also have a photo of my grandfather in France in early 1940, wearing a complete WW1 uniform with the exception of a sidecap, rather than a peaked cap. He was a regular in the RAMC, so even they hadn't got Battle Dress by then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Carolyn Posted 24 August , 2003 Share Posted 24 August , 2003 Thank you all for the helpful comments. Please find below the photos I have for which I do not know anything. If anyone can give me any information at all, eg which war, which unit, the rank of the serviceman from any insiignia etc, I will be very grateful. Carolyn Picture 1: I am convinced that this is a WW1 picture. Not much of the uniform is shown, but it does look like there could possibly be the outline of a collar badge on the serviceman's right collar. It was also pointed out to me that there could also be a shoulder patch instead of an epaulette on the man's right shoulder. I did see a photograph of exactly the same style featured on the BBC documentary series "The Trench". My photograph has had the bottom ripped off (not shown) - maybe this had an inscription on it at some time. My family has a chequered history and maybe someone wanted to hide the identity - if this man is from my grandad's side of the family, his mother had children by 3 different men in the second decade of the 1900s and was only married to one of them. Or maybe it just became damaged being taken out of an album. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Carolyn Posted 24 August , 2003 Share Posted 24 August , 2003 Picture 2: The picture my Gran identified on the back as being of someone in the family in WW2. I thought at first that this could have been WW1 (because of similarity to pictures on the Imperial War Museum website) but after reading Munce's comments about puttees and gaitors, I now think that this probably is WW2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Carolyn Posted 24 August , 2003 Share Posted 24 August , 2003 Picture 3: A source of discussion between me and my Mum. She said WW1 and I said WW2. Looking at the hat and lack of puttees I stand by my guess. I suspect that this could be a picture of my Grandad who was in the Pioneer Corps in WW2 (although I don't know anything about the bars) or his brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Carolyn Posted 24 August , 2003 Share Posted 24 August , 2003 Picture 4: No idea - WW2 in North Africa somewhere? The cap badge may provide a clue but I can't make it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Carolyn Posted 24 August , 2003 Share Posted 24 August , 2003 And finally........ Picture 5: I believe this to be a WW1 picture - the puttees are right, the jacket is long and the background fits with being early 1900s. Again, I can't identify the cap badge or collar badges but someone out there might be able to recognise them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hill 60 Posted 24 August , 2003 Share Posted 24 August , 2003 #'s 2, 3 & 4 all look WWII era to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munce Posted 24 August , 2003 Share Posted 24 August , 2003 I agree with Lee that 2 and 3 are definitely WW2 era, but I'm not so sure about 4, as he's not wearing BD. However, as DAve and Paul pointed out there was a lot of WW1 stuff floating around in the early part of WW2, and indeed the WW2 era uniforms were only introduced in 1937, so right up until then the British Army looked much as it did in WW1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munce Posted 24 August , 2003 Share Posted 24 August , 2003 Looking at the cap badge of #4, it could be a fleur de lys, which was the badge of the Manchester Regiment post 1923. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted 24 August , 2003 Share Posted 24 August , 2003 No1 - probably WW1 - WW1 service jacket but could be later isue of old uniform. vignette type photo is also WW1 style. No 2 - WW2 wearing 1937 web equipment with box respirator left hip. No3 - WW2 fore 'n aft hat and has what looks like a WW1 trio medal ribbon bar No4 - probably WW1 as he is wearing puttees No5 - looks like Duke of Wellingtons (West Riding ) Regt badge, WW1 & service uniform Aye Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 24 August , 2003 Share Posted 24 August , 2003 I'd agree with most of the above but would add: No 1 - almost certainly WW1; it has that feel and is a typcial image of that period. Later photographs differed in quality. No 2 - This is someone in the Home Guard. The 'box' on the left, is not a respirator, but either a binos case or an ammunition pouch. The right pouch, the smaller one, is the typical 37 webbing pouch. So WW2. No 3 - an old soldier; a WW2 photo, but he appears to have WW1 medal ribbons. Again, perhaps Home Guard or Pioneer Corps as you suggest. No 4 - not North Africa; background and his kit not right. I would say it was in the UK and possibly pre-WW2, but not earlier than mid/late 1930s. I would also agree that the badge looks like the Manchesters (Fleur de Lys). No 5 - WW1, a soldier of a Territorial battalion of the Duke of Wellingtons (West Riding Regt). You can see the large 'T' brass shoulder titles. The collar badges are odd - they look like Canadian ones! They were not standard issue in WW1 to Other Ranks, and may have been an oddity to that battalion? Otherwise he could have borrowed them!? Hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Sweeney Posted 24 August , 2003 Share Posted 24 August , 2003 Carolyn, The only photo that might be WWI is No. 1. All the others are post WWI. However, if he is wearing collar insignia then it would indicate post WW1. No. 2 and 3 are wearing Battle Dress. No. 3 may be a WWI vet as he is wearing what could be PiP, Squeek, and Wilfred No. 4 is wearing Service Dress but the Service Dress cap is post WWI. No.5 is wearing Service Dress but again post WWI. The Cap is post war and the wearing of Collar insignia was not universal on Service Dress until circa 1924. Yes a few units wore collar insignia in WWI but this was very very rare. I would say you have two WWII photos and the others are interwar. Joe Sweeney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 24 August , 2003 Share Posted 24 August , 2003 I'd agree with Joe above that the wearing of collar badges was rare, but I have a number of WW1 photos (date and/or signed) where men have them unofficially... what would help with this one is a scan of the BACK of the photo, if you have the original. It's just that the background looks like a typical French studio! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Carolyn Posted 27 August , 2003 Share Posted 27 August , 2003 Thank you everyone for your help. You have all been very kind sharing your knowledge once again. Carolyn Paul, The back of the photo shows absolutely no details. However, I have a number of family photos taken in Oldham/Manchester/Chesterfield in the early 20th Century which have similar backgrounds. They may have copied they style from France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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