Mark Crame Posted 14 December , 2005 Share Posted 14 December , 2005 On this photo of my Great Grandfather there are upside down 'corporal chevrons' on his lower left sleeve under the marksmans badge, but his rank is the upper right sleeve with a single Lance Corporal chevron and 'Rough Rider' riding instructors badge. My question is what are the lower left chevrons denoting please? Many thanks, mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 14 December , 2005 Share Posted 14 December , 2005 Five years Good Conduct. Interestingly, the chevrons are, heraldically, the right way up! The lance corporal chevron is 'wrong way up' Nice photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Crame Posted 14 December , 2005 Author Share Posted 14 December , 2005 Thanks awfully old boy, have another! Thanks, mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Crame Posted 14 December , 2005 Author Share Posted 14 December , 2005 Sorry, another question: What colours would they be, and where could I get some, either original or repro, please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 14 December , 2005 Share Posted 14 December , 2005 One chevron for two years good conduct, the second for a further three years = 5 years per LangleyBaston19141918's post, and will usually appear on service records on the anniversaries of date of enlistment. There has been interesting discussion on the Forum as to just how good (or bad) you could be and retain the stripes. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 14 December , 2005 Share Posted 14 December , 2005 (edited) I think, in this order of dress, the chevrons [all chevrons] would be a gold braid for Lancers, but you need an expert. Spit-and-polish donkey-wallopers are not my forte. [sorry, can't find the acute accent to put on the 'e'] Edited 14 December , 2005 by langleybaston1418 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 15 December , 2005 Share Posted 15 December , 2005 Not an expert but hope you won't mind me adding my two pennyworth. If the regimental lace was gold it was usually yellow for o/r's. If the regimental lace was silver then it was usually white for o/r's. However, there were many variations depending on regiment and which order of dress was being worn but I would go with yellow as the most likely in what appears to be full dress in these splendid photographs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Crame Posted 15 December , 2005 Author Share Posted 15 December , 2005 Not an expert but hope you won't mind me adding my two pennyworth. If the regimental lace was gold it was usually yellow for o/r's. If the regimental lace was silver then it was usually white for o/r's. However, there were many variations depending on regiment and which order of dress was being worn but I would go with yellow as the most likely in what appears to be full dress in these splendid photographs. Cheers chaps. Yellow or gold on what backing, red or blue do you think? I'm inclined to think red, as they had red tunics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 16 December , 2005 Share Posted 16 December , 2005 I should think the backing for the chevrons was red on the red lancer tunic. As the 16th was the only Lancer regiment to have the red tunic (the other Lancer regiments wore blue) I shouldn't think that they would have blue backing after having been granted the honour of keeping the red tunic. I'm sure that you know about the crimping of the lance pennons as commemoration of the heroic action of the 16th at the battle of Aliwal; charging the guns and breaking an infantry square etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Crame Posted 19 December , 2005 Author Share Posted 19 December , 2005 I should think the backing for the chevrons was red on the red lancer tunic. As the 16th was the only Lancer regiment to have the red tunic (the other Lancer regiments wore blue) I shouldn't think that they would have blue backing after having been granted the honour of keeping the red tunic. I'm sure that you know about the crimping of the lance pennons as commemoration of the heroic action of the 16th at the battle of Aliwal; charging the guns and breaking an infantry square etc. I do indeed. 16 crimps. Only cavalry regiment to ever break an infantry square - I remember my Grandad saying that to me once - one of the few things I can recall. I am also inclined to think it would be red backing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Crame Posted 19 December , 2005 Author Share Posted 19 December , 2005 Oh, another tradition of the 16th is that they don't stand for the National Anthem. Asking my dad, he says that my Grandfather always stood - everybody stood. Perhaps it was just while he was in the Regiment that he kept to that tradition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 19 December , 2005 Share Posted 19 December , 2005 Regimental traditions; be it standing or not for the National Anthem, drinking or not drinking the Loyal Toast, proposing and/or drinking it standing/sitting and a host of others are all part of British Eccentricity at its finest. And there is a reason behind all of them. Long may they be continued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 19 December , 2005 Share Posted 19 December , 2005 In some RAF Messes, the Port and Madeira are circulated IN THE AIR: ie. not slid along the table. I have seen a fine of a CASE of Port levied for infraction. And, as for touching the Mess Silver set as centrepieces. Oh Oh Ohhh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RC Sigs Posted 20 December , 2005 Share Posted 20 December , 2005 I have been looking for a photo of a Canadian soldier wearing the rough rider badge as shown above. Also looking for actual badges. Any leads. Tom www.skill-at-arms.ca Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 20 December , 2005 Share Posted 20 December , 2005 If you see someone wearing the spur badge he will be be more inclined to be polite if you refer to him as a riding instructor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Crame Posted 20 December , 2005 Author Share Posted 20 December , 2005 I did get one from www.kellybadge.co.uk once. NOT quite the same. I saw another place flogging repros of supposedly the correct era, but these look wrong too. http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~thinred/index2.html Compared to the one on his arm, it just doesn't look the same to me - the top curls around more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 20 December , 2005 Share Posted 20 December , 2005 If you see someone wearing the spur badge he will be be more inclined to be polite if you refer to him as a riding instructor. Er, um, not really. No 'non-officer' was referred to as an Instructor of anything: they had to be content with 'assistant instructor'. And, if that were not enough, rough riders in fact glorified in their demi-official status: as a quote, in one of Spike Mays' books, he refers to a man with farrier's badge and roughrider's badge saying: I'm the only rough riding farrier in the army, I shoe horses at the ******* gallop! And a brag. My middle daughter, Met Police Mounted Branch, has just become a fully qualified Riding Instructor [the official title]. Scarce as rocking horse by-product. I shall present her with a roughrider's spur from my collection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 20 December , 2005 Share Posted 20 December , 2005 (edited) I only made this point from the experience of asking a Blues & Royals Corporal of Horse, who was wearing the spur badge, if he was a Rough Rider. I was told , firmly but politely, that they preferred to be called "Riding Instructors". Kipling, "O it makes you cock a hoop to be "Rider" to your troop and be branded with a blasted worsted spur......." Congratulations to you daughter for her considerable achievement. Edited 20 December , 2005 by squirrel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 20 December , 2005 Share Posted 20 December , 2005 I only made this point from the experience of asking a Blues & Royals Corporal of Horse, who was wearing the spur badge, if he was a Rough Rider. I was told , firmly but politely, that they preferred to be called "Riding Instructors". Ahm but now is now and then was then. Quote 1914 Clothing Regs: 'Rough riders wear a spur' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Crame Posted 20 December , 2005 Author Share Posted 20 December , 2005 Does this mean that you have a contemporary Rough Rider spur by any chance? If so, might I ask if you would be so kind, please, to scan it in colour for me to have a look at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 20 December , 2005 Share Posted 20 December , 2005 Point taken lb. Seems that as I get older I forget that things have changed. Now where's that penny for an ice cream cornet...... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 20 December , 2005 Share Posted 20 December , 2005 I cannot be sure it/ they is/are 1418 period, but next time I go in attic and get collection out, will find the card and scan for you. A brass version existed, too. Do you have access to my 'British Army Proficiency badges'? If not, will scan the relevant page. Photos are 1:1 of the badges, but not colour! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 20 December , 2005 Share Posted 20 December , 2005 here is one: http://www.kellybadge.co.uk/images/Y1G761.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Crame Posted 20 December , 2005 Author Share Posted 20 December , 2005 here is one: http://www.kellybadge.co.uk/images/Y1G761.jpg Thats the one I have - but it doesn't look right compared to the photos. I bought it from there a couple of years back. I haven't got the book though - does that match the one in the kellybadge photo? I have, on it's way, the brass cavalry Scout Badge as per the pic of my GGF's medals/badges: Here's him wearing it (Centre back) Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 21 December , 2005 Share Posted 21 December , 2005 That lovely large scout badge is cavalry or infantry [other than India, where infantry wore an India-pattern S in full circle wreath [cheapskate I believe]. The badge with bar was made in large and small versions, but the bar signified "Regimental" or "Battalion" scout, more highly qulified than without bar, that being squadron or company scout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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