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Harry Patch's comrades


docchippy

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Iave just managed to find time to watch "The Last Tommy". Harry Patch recounts being wounded near Pilckem on 22 Sept 1917 and his comrades being killed. Did he Identify them, or has any forum member managed to do so? I have done a text search on the forum site and con't sem to find any discussion ofthe others in his Lewis team?

:)

Doc

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I've seen a few of the programmes Harry patch has appeared in and read a few supporting articles, but no doubt not all of them. I seem to remember that he said it was one of his greatest regrets that he couldn't recall the names of his mates in the lewis team. He could remember nicknames but nothing more. From what I've seen and read it's not possible to put his team together.. but heres hoping eh?

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I would have thought that given the exact date and location of death it would have been possible to narrow down the search to a number of possibles. As they were Lewis Gunners would they still be listed as with their parent unit (7/DCLI?) as opposed to MGC? SDGW or even the MIC will confirm previous service with the DCLI assuming they all came together through the same route?

Steve

(a great fan of Harry)

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There are no 7th Battalion DCLI for that date on SDGW. Also there are no Machine Gun Corps on that date either who have previous service in DCLI.

The Plot thickens !!!!!!!!!!

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I’ve checked the new CD version of SDGW and for 22 September 1917 it lists three 7th Bn. Duke of Cornwall Light Infantry casualties:

28783 Pte Ernest Cullingford

34500 Pte James Forrest

28328 Pte Alfred Moyses

All three are shown as killed in action.

From CWGC, Moyses is named on the Tyne Cot Memorial, whilst Cullingford and Forrest are buried together in the same plot at Cement House Cemetery, Langemark-Poelkapelle.

These three might be good candidates for Harry’s comrades.

Mark

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How certain are you that they are the ones.. because if you are and Harry can be contacted, he might be able to confirm their identity if their names jog his memory

John

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John

I’m not by any means certain, but these three soldiers do fit the basic facts – i.e. they are only ones from Harry’s battalion recorded on SDGW and CWGC as loosing their lives that day; furthermore Cullingford and Forrest are buried where one might expect if they died near Pilckem.

Mark

Edited by Brigantian
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Would the details not be in the 7 DCLI war diary at Kew, which is available online? Just a thought. My gt grandads unit 4 Royal Fusiliers have got theirs at Kew online and I have downloaded it. Surely the names of the boys lost will be there if anywhere. Also what is SDGW?

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SDGW is Soldiers Died in the Grteat War available on CD - it is referred to numerous times in various threads on this Forum.

Battalion War Diaries are unlikely to give the names of O/R's killed - they usually only to refer to so many O/R's killed, so many O/R's wounded.

Diary of 1st East Surreys in Sept. 1914 just lists the ES on my sig. amongst the wounded but does mention him by name some days later when the unit was advised that he had died of wounds.

Diary of MGC unit that the MGC man on my sig refers to just says, "A quiet night. Shelling in the usual places. 4 O/R's killed."

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Hi All, :)

Made a mistake put 22-10-17 instead of 22-9-17. Thats why I got no results !!!!! :blink:

It might be worth watching the Last Tommy at the point where he talks about them as he says something about what they did for jobs before the war and also I recall he says where they came from !!

If anyone does have it on tape, here are the three chaps details:-

Ernest Cullingford

born, Wayford, Somerset,

Enlisted, Taunton

Residence Wayford

James Forrest

Edinburgh

London

Shepherds Bush

Alfred Moyses

Newquay, Cornwall

Newquay

Cheers

Tim.

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As they were Lewis Gunners would they still be listed as with their parent unit (7/DCLI?)

Yes. Lewis gunners were integral to the platoon. Vickers guns were withdrawn from the battalion manpower on the formation of the MGC.

Brendon.

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Ernest Cullingford is listed by UKNIWM as commemorated in St Michael's Church, Wayford, Somerset. He is listed as Earnest Cullingford with the online 1901 census and said to be 9 years old.

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Ernest Cullingford is listed by UKNIWM as commemorated in St Michael's Church, Wayford, Somerset. He is listed as Earnest Cullingford with the online 1901 census and said to be 9 years old.

Any info on the nicknames?

Possible matches for others:

Wayford Somerset 1901

George Cullingford head 39

Sarah Jane wife 40

Christopher son 17

Frank son 16

Earl son 14

George son 13

Mary Helen daur 12

Charles son 10

Earnest son 9 b. Wayford Somerset

Dora daur 8

Wallace son 6

Olive daur 4

Ada daur 3

Rowland son 1

Wallsend, Northumberland 1901

James Forrest head 42

Mary wife 40

Jane daur 19

William son 16

James son 14 Shipyard Labourer b. Scotland

Cecilia daur 10

Thomas son 8

Walter son 5

Mary daur 2

St. Columb Minor, Cornwall 1901

William J. Moyses Head 47

Elizabeth wife 49

R.Harry son 19

Alberny son 16

Alfred son 13 b. Newquay

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having checked CWGC, the last two would appear to be wrong....

I stand corrected (by myself....)

CWGC info for Moyses is:

Son of Mrs. E. Moyses, of "Kroonstade," Tower Rd., Newquay, and the late John Moyses; husband of Emily Mary Moyses, of Fore St., Tregoney, Grampound Road., Cornwall.

The 1901 census address is Tower Road, Newquay:

William J. Moyses head

Elizabeth Moyses wife

There only seems to be one James Forest (or Forrest) born in Scotland.

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IThere only seems to be one James Forest (or Forrest) born in Scotland.

Chances are James Forrest was still living in Edinburgh in 1901, where he was born so would not be on the English census. CWGC entry says he was 20 when he died so would have been born around 1897.

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In the book 'Forgotten Voices' Harry mentions he was attached to C Company Lewis Gun as No 2. The No 1 was 'Bob'.

This of course doesn't mean that Bob was the name of one of the three killed.

Harry also states that there were 5 in a team, so what happened to the fifth man, if indeed there was a fifth during that particular attack?

Regards

John

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Harry also states that there were 5 in a team, so what happened to the fifth man, if indeed there was a fifth during that particular attack?

Regards

John

Hi John, :)

Very good point, I have always wondered about this !!

Cheers

Tim.

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I have had a look through the Last Tommy video again and Harry states that his comrades in the Lewis team were: gunner, a L-Cpl peactime electrician from Henley-on Thames, Harry a plumber, number 3 from Truro, number 4 & 5 both from Falmouth one a shoemaker and one a grocer.

These do not seem to fit the ID's given above, but any sound alikes or close geographical proximity to the places mentioned in earlier posts?

regards

Doc

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I have had a look through the Last Tommy video again and Harry states that his comrades in the Lewis team were: gunner, a L-Cpl peactime electrician from Henley-on Thames, Harry a plumber, number 3 from Truro, number 4 & 5 both from Falmouth one a shoemaker and one a grocer.

These do not seem to fit the ID's given above, but any sound alikes or close geographical proximity to the places mentioned in earlier posts?

Very strange, they don't seem to fit.

Here is the casualties for August-Sept 1917. Harry mentions capturing the German trench and the service trench behind it. It was going back over the old no-mans-land that they were hit. However he gives no timescale.

The shell fell late at night and there does not seem to be any casualties for 23 - so they were not recorded on this day.

Anyone in contact with Harry. maybe he remembers the nicknames, or age of his pals, it may help.

Did he get the date right. Not being funny about his 'Rememberance Day' but being half his age I get dates mixed up!

Here's the graph. Not sure if the 7th were involved in taking the trenches - but it may have been 16th August, looking at casualties.

Anyone got a war diary?

post-4982-1134652687.jpg

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