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Help with identifying rifle please


CarylW

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Can anyone help me to identify the rifle this soldier is holding here please?

Think this is one of my grandmothers CARNEY brothers, probably one of the privates Frederick or Edmund and he is posing with my grandparents. 2nd E Yorks regiment (if that helps, I haven't a clue about weapons)

john.jpg

Thanks

Caryl

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It is a Rifle, Short, Magazine, Lee-Enfield, otherwise often called a SMLE. Standard British Army WWI issue.

angie

That's great, many thanks

Caryl

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Evening Caryl,

Do you know what the date of the photo is? John (5083) and Thomas (5748) where both NCOs at the begining of the war, Fredrick (6971) was issued his 1st GCB june 1913, Patrick (6358) all 2nd EYR and Edmund (3/1940) 3rd EYR have not found reference to him in the 2nd... yet?

Regards Charles

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angie

That's great, many thanks

Caryl

The Rifle appears to be a No1 MkI A rather scarce early version of the SMLE - much sought after by collectors due to it's one side bolt head mounted charger guide and unique rear handguard around the rear sight.

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quote name='gew98' date='Dec 9 2005, 04:32 AM' post='358999']

The Rifle appears to be a No1 MkI A rather scarce early version of the SMLE - much sought after by collectors due to it's one side bolt head mounted charger guide and unique rear handguard around the rear sight.

I agree, it appears to be an SMLE Mk I, probably a Mk.I*** as these were approved 22 April 1914 and were conversions of Mk I* to suit Mk.VII ammunition. Any earlier Marks would probably have been upgraded by then, although one can never say never.

Just to be picky, the SMLE did not become the Rifle No.1 until 1926 when the nomenclature was changed.

Regards

TonyE

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Evening Caryl,

Do you know what the date of the photo is? John (5083) and Thomas (5748) where both NCOs at the begining of the war, Fredrick (6971) was issued his 1st GCB june 1913, Patrick (6358) all 2nd EYR and Edmund (3/1940) 3rd EYR have not found reference to him in the 2nd... yet?

Regards Charles

Morning Charles :)

Unfortunately I don't know the date of any of the photos, no names on the back either and family members are unsure as to who is who, I'm trying to work out which brother is which. The eldest child in the photo above, my Uncle, was born in 1912, looks to be about three yrs old there. The baby shown, my aunt was born in December 1914, she looks maybe a year old there, so maybe 1915?

I have other photos of the CARNEY brothers, one Boer War period, one in India - others I posted Here in that thread

I didn't know the name of the fifth brother, so thanks for that, looks like it's Patrick then. I also just 'assumed' that Frederick too was 2 EYR, but you appear to have found him in 3 EYR, what does the 3/1940 mean though? also what is a GCB? could he originally have been in 2EYR? I don't know anything about this sort of thing - or any sort of thing military!! :ph34r:

Again thanks once more for providing me with some excellent information

gew98 and Tony

Many thanks for the extra info on the rifle

Caryl

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Caryl,

Glad its of some help Edmunds number 3/1940 is in the 3rd EYR which was the reserve battalion and that number suggests he joined or rejoined Oct/Nov 1914, I also have another Patrick Carney with a number 10394 this suggests he joined up Aug 1914 which would have been to the 6th EYR(Service). GCB is the Good Conduct Badge your man is wearing three on his left lower arm, this basicaly says he has served 6 years mans time as a good boy.

Have you got any Idea of birth dates for the 5 of them or of any? from this I may be able to determine whos who!

Regards Charles

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Charles

Thanks once more

Only birth dates I have so far are:

Frederick born 1888, John born 1882

I'm planning a visit to Ireland early next year, so I hope to find out the birth dates of the others, and apply for the certs, just so many Carney's born in Dublin, all with similar first names, I've been putting it off

I'm not 100% certain about Frederick's birth date either since I have an Irish birth cert from 1888, that looks as if the first name of the child has a tear through it and Frederick is the second name, so it could be one of the other brothers, or maybe he preferred to use his second name. Born in Islandbridge Barracks, father Henry was a military pensioner by that time, formerly a soldier in 15th reg of foot Have no idea why a Military pensioner would be living in the barracks at that time

Birthcert1888.jpg

Caryl

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  • 1 month later...

Charles

I am absolutely overwhelmed!!

You've solved just about every last mystery I had regarding the Carney brothers!!!

So much information about all the Carney brothers, names I didn't even have, not to mention all of the info you given me prior to this

Thank you SO much!!

oooh I could eat you on a butty!!

I'm off to check e-mails. I've just printed all of this out in triplicate, so scared of losing all of this precious stuff

Tried to reply earlier but there was some glitch on the forum

Caryl

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Well done Charles...what a distinguished mob they were.

Rgds

Tim D

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Charles there might be MORE? please pass me the smelling salts first, I might just faint!

After I came down from the ceiling last night and read through all of the above again it occurred to me that you have provided me with the equivalant or a substitute for a service record for each of them

So they all survived bar one then. I wasn't entirely sure since there were CARNEY's on the CWG that could have been some of them and I wasn't sure about all of the names. Was that article in the Snapper? what was the date?

What are the odds of five brothers in action during WW1 and four surviving and some of them came under fire Boer War too!

I didn't know that any were in Gallipoli, and since I wasn't sure about all of their names can now download more MIC's - don't know much about that campaign, must read up and research that more now

I didn't know that John had lost an eye - no-one in my family ever mentioned this even though he was nursed at my grandmother's home in Liverpool before he died.

Since four survived I've probably got a load of relations up in Hull and Dublin that I didn't know about - must look into this and try to find out what happened to all of the medals. If they are in someone's collection, family or otherwise and being cherished, fine. I don't think I could afford them all anyway!! lol

Anyway I'll stop blathering on!

Caryl

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Have no idea why a Military pensioner would be living in the barracks at that time

He possibly got a job in the stores or similar. Any army pension was probably not enough to live on if you had a young family.

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OMG *faint*

This just gets better and better!

I've just downloaded the large version from my e-mail!! It's so clear

Had no idea they were all in a band together.

I'm running out of superlatives here.

Charles. Thanks SO much, again and again!

Now I have a photo of each brother and can identify which brother is which from the photos I do have - brilliant!

Will put it all up on a website I think - might have all the Carney's in the world writing to me but no worries would like to find any other relations or descendants of the brothers that I don't already know about. I'd like to know what happened to them all so I can complete the picture

angie thanks for that, I'm going to look into his career soon.

Caryl

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Caryl,

You do make me blush, its from the Snapper December 1927. Ill let you know if theres more as I work through them. William and Thomas attended the Old Comrades Dinner in September 1927.

Regards Charles

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Caryl,

You do make me blush

Charles

I had a feeling I might! Sorry, I'll try to be calm and reasonable and spare your blushes ..lol

Means such a lot to me

Four of the Carney brothers are definitely in the band picture above. Frederick is the young Drummer Boy in the front row, aged abt 15, and from the information you gave me in the snippet above he must have enlisted aged 14. Didn't realise boys enlisted into the army so young. I have another photo of a Drummer Boy and it does appear to be Frederick and it also appears to be Frederick in the photo of the soldier above holding the rifle. So that mystery is solved

Other EYR band members in the photo above in case anyone turns up here researching these soldiers are:

Stein, England, Hewitt, T Carney, Merrill, Catt, McReynolds, Gardiner, Riley, Potten, Locke, Humphries, Gosling, J Carney, Cornell, Corpl Thacker, Lieut Boyd Dr-Major Clare, W Carney, Conreuth, Pearson, Molloy, F Carney, Thompson. No first names given. Only the 4 Carney brothers are identified by their initials

From a brief search of CWG - and it's harder without initials, it does look as if many of the EYR band did not survive WW1, including John Carney that I already knew about, unless the ones on the CWG are brothers or relations of the above

Right, I'll stop whittering on about these brothers now in this 'ere thread, might be boring everyone witless and sorry to all those viewing who thought this topic was a discussion about rifles! It was but now it isn't! :ph34r:

Caryl

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