Yukon Pack Loads

[Greenwoodman]

I've just been reading the Official History account of the Battle of Messines, and the part played by Yukon packs. They were apparently issued on the scale of 250 per division, and 50-65lbs could be carried over rough ground, to speed up the delivery of material to the newly captured front lines. The OH records the arrival of one Yukon pack team within 4 (yes, four!) minutes of a trench being secured!!

Ian Passingham ("Pillars of Fire) states that rations, water, ammunition and equipment were the usual loads of the Yukon packs. (Good photo on page 118 of this book).

The questions I have relate to the weight of individual items. Do any Pals know the weight of a box of rifle ammunition, or of machine gun ammunition? I'm trying to get a handle on the amount of immediate resupply available through the Yukon packs during the Battle of Messines.

Any references to Yukon packs and their uses also gratefully received.

For the interest of casual readers, these Yukon packs (and their carriers) were the tip of the iceberg. In addition, each division had some 453 mule pack saddles as well as the next tier of resupply.

[AndrewThornton]

Bill Mitcheson's book on Pioneer Battalions in the Great War would probably contain some useful information on Yukon Packs. I seem to remember that the use of the packs is mentioned in detail in the book, as well as photos illustrating their use.

[Broznitsky]

Mitchinson has a nice photo of an empty Yukon pack.

He talks about a competition that involved teams of 11 men who loaded and carried three full water tins, four picks, six shovels, one box of SAA, eight Stokes bombs, two coils of wire, two trench boards, three boxes of Mills bombs, ten large screw pickets, one case of rations, and 14 filled Lewis gun magazines, over an obstacle course of about half a mile. "The real significance of the event was to test and confirm the superiority of the Yukon pack over other means of carrying heavy, bulky equipment and stores to the front."

Unfortunately he doesn't describe how the loads were distributed amongst the team or any weights.

Peter in Vancouver

(p.s. I've forgotten what SAA stands for, please enlighten me!)

[Neil Burns]

I've decided to answer the only aspect of this that I can:

SAA= Small Arms Ammunition

That's it for me!

Neil

[Peter Beckett]

I have scanned p118 from Pillars of Fire to give Pals an idea of the Yukon pack.

Apologies for poor quality as I am scanning to the quality of the printed page.

Peter

[Geoff Parker]

Weights as follows:

.303 MK VII SAA ammunition came in bandoliers (50 rounds each) and there

was 1000 rounds per box, weight approx 74lb 8oz.

.303 MK VII SAA ammunication for Vickers came in a Mk 8 ammo box containing one belt of 250 rounds, weight approx 21lb 14oz.

Grenade weights varied depending on the type of grenade. I did have the weights for loaded boxes of Mills bombs (No5, 23, 36) but blowed if I can find it now.

I would estimate the weight to be somewhere in the region of 30lbs as each

grenade was approx 1lb 7oz when filled, 12 per box, plus the weight of the box. Rods for No23 which were originally intended to be Rifle grenades came in a seperate box with the blank rifle cartridges.

As far as I remember, of the photographs I've seen of the Yukon pack being used they only appear to carry water and rations.

Geoff

[Peter Beckett]

Geoff,

thats really interesting.

Does anyone have access to an original photo as the quality of the one on P118 in Pillars of Fire is not clear enough to work out what the troops are carrying.

By the way they are walking and in particular the one with the white cane or walking stick, they do seem overloaded.

Peter

[Geoff Parker]

Peter

I looked that this photograph in the book last night and I thought that they were

basically empty. Doesnt the bulky stuff get attached to the outside.

Geoff

[Peter Beckett]

Geoff,

I had a typo in previous comment. It should have said "don't seem overloaded". I have had another look at the photo and it appears there is something in the packs, also the horse or mule at the front of the column is carrying gear. The caption does say "troops carrying supplies forward using Yukon packs". I am now really interested so does anyone have a better photo of one either empty or loaded?

Peter

[Geoff Parker]

Yes its wetted my interested as well, I know of one picture in one of the Osprey

books on the British, plus a couple of others in various books. I've an idea that I've seen a drawing somewhere but can't remember where

Geoff

[Greenwoodman]

Thank you to all contributors to this thread, and I apologise for not coming back to you sooner. I must admit to being at Spanbroekmolen and looking over the ground these packs were used on!!

The packs do not seem overloaded in the photo, but with a carrying capacity of 65 lbs, 20 bandoliers (or less!) could easily be hung internally in the packs without showing any bulk IMHO.

Any further help will be much appreciated.

[Peter Beckett]

Geoff,

the picture from Pillars of Fire would be able to be ordered from the IWM as the reference is Q5788

Peter

[Geoff Parker]

Peter

Sorry for late response, just back from the Somme. Thanks for the info on the photo. There is also a picture in one the Osprey books (cant remember which)

on the British Army of WWI showing a soldier with a loaded carrier.

Geoff

[michaeldr]

I looked that this photograph in the book last night and I thought that they were basically empty. Doesnt the bulky stuff get attached to the outside.

What you see in the photograph reproduced above is the basic Yukon pack without its load. You will note that the man at the rear has a skein of rope with which he will eventually secure his load to the pack. It appears almost identical to the one which I bought new and which I used [with the addition of its canvas hold-all forming a rucksack] from the early 1960s and well into the '70s. From memory, the Yukon provided a light wood frame which was slightly curved to match the shape of one's back. This frame was inside a canvas sleeve which was held in tension. With the shoulder straps correctly adjusted this meant that loads, even very heavy and awkwardly shaped ones, could be carried in a comfortable fashion, high on the back. With the load's centre of gravity between the shoulder blades and not somewhere around the waist line, then carrying even heavy loads over long distances is much less exhausting. From what I've seen a lot of the modern mountaineering/trekking rucksacks employ the same basic principles but with modern materials; a light alloy frame and some or other patent fabric.

Regards

Michael D.R.

[Chris Henschke]

I have a document from the Australian War Memorial, printed by the Army Printing & Stationery Services, in October, 1917. It is S.S. 702 and titled "Yukon Pack, instructions for use". it has three diagrams. If you like, I could post a copy to you.

The packs were used at Arras and Messines and later were issued 500 per Division.

Chris Henschke

[MGHorsfield]

I'm not precisely certain when they were issued to 2H.A.C. however the Bn war diary mentions the men being put through 'Yukon pack classes...' on the 31st of August 1918. This was whilst they were stationed on the Italian front.

[Greenwoodman]

Here's a blast from the past!

This was whilst they were stationed on the Italian front.

Was this on the Asiago plateau?

[nigelfe]

Interesting, weren't 'Yukon' frames also used in WW2 and into the 1960s? These were rectangular aluminium frames constructed using aircraft fuselage techniques (rivets). Perhaps the term became generic.