burlington Posted 6 December , 2005 Share Posted 6 December , 2005 This is a picture of the burial ground attached to the now closed Talgarth Mental Hospital in Mid Wales. The place is in poor condition and the new owner of the property is going to erect a picket fence around it. As for the other burials, the inmates were buried 3 to a pit in unmarked holes in the ground! The name of the soldier whose grave marker this is, is Pte. John Lewis, 6Bn. Welsh Regiment. Died 20/10/15. Shellshock?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshdoc Posted 6 December , 2005 Share Posted 6 December , 2005 Hi what a sad photo and story. Its good to hear that some attention will be paid to the grave site. Its awful to have unmarked graves for the patients. I could not help but wonder if such a single war grave could or should be moved to be with other CWGC burials. I understand this has happened in France, and also to the German WW2 burials in the UK. I wonder who can decide such a matter? Gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burlington Posted 6 December , 2005 Author Share Posted 6 December , 2005 I am going to contact the CWGC anyway. They are supposed to have inspected the site a few years ago with 'all being well' but this was before the hospital was closed. I will wait though for other comments on this posting. I think it should be moved, if for no other reason that the grave sits in the middle of what is now private property. I assume that the ground is consecrated though. Talking to the owner yesterday, there did not seem to be any agreement with him and the CWGC nor indeed so far as I know did the health people brief him about the grave. Perhaps Terry Denham could comment. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 6 December , 2005 Share Posted 6 December , 2005 What a very sad sight Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthergw Posted 6 December , 2005 Share Posted 6 December , 2005 I doubt if this is what they died for. My vote would be to move him to a cemetery where his grave would be cared for. I am assuming that there is no surviving family whose wishes, of course, should be consulted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredJCarss Posted 6 December , 2005 Share Posted 6 December , 2005 I've seen tidier land fills! This is not what was meant by "Honoured Dead". Move him and give him the respect he dererves. Very sad Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spike10764 Posted 6 December , 2005 Share Posted 6 December , 2005 I would hope he could be moved, especially if the site is as abandoned as it looks. Hopefully his relatives should not object to such a move. As we have seen in other cemeteries featured in threads, mind you, not all are as neat(??) as this site(?). At least it can be insisted on clearing an area around the stone though, hopefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 6 December , 2005 Share Posted 6 December , 2005 I got the feeling from the length of time the hospital was open that perhaps this was not a military hospital and that the rest of the graves may be civilian. Is that right? This is the only military grave listed on the CWGC site, although I see there are a further seven at the Talgarth churchyard cemetery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 6 December , 2005 Share Posted 6 December , 2005 Are we saying, therefore, that this chap should be moved to "decent" surroundings, but the civilian patients should be left where they are? If so, then it's a funny old world, innit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 6 December , 2005 Share Posted 6 December , 2005 John, you said very much what I was just about to comment. The other poor human beings deserve to lie in cared-for surroundings too. Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 6 December , 2005 Share Posted 6 December , 2005 Martin, what are the plans for the site? Do you know? Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthergw Posted 6 December , 2005 Share Posted 6 December , 2005 Are we saying, therefore, that this chap should be moved to "decent" surroundings, but the civilian patients should be left where they are? If so, then it's a funny old world, innit? My reaction was directed at the treatment of the military grave since that is the focus of this forum. The other graves are on a par with paupers' graves in every other cemetery and graveyard. I happen to think that the treatment meted out to these unfortunates is despicable but I think I am straying into politics here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burlington Posted 6 December , 2005 Author Share Posted 6 December , 2005 Martin, what are the plans for the site? Do you know? Gwyn Part of the site is now a business park. The chapel is unused. The rest of this vast complex is to be converted to housing. The graveyard you saw contains only civilian burials plus of course the WW1 one. The car park is built over another graveyard! One point about 'paupers' in an earlier posting. The practice of burying the dead in unmarked graves, 3 to a plt, went on until very recently. This place was not a workhouse or similar, it was a hospital with sick people in it. Short term or long term. On reflecting on my visit 24 hrs later, I feel really sickened that what happened there was allowed to go on. I know this is a WW1 Forum BUT this issue was raised with a serious WW1 context. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian turner Posted 6 December , 2005 Share Posted 6 December , 2005 MIC Description Medal card of Lewis, Lewis J Corps Regiment No Rank Welsh Regiment 2940 Private Welsh Regiment 241133 Private Date 1914-1920 Catalogue reference WO 372/12 +++ CWGC Casualty Details Name: LEWIS, JOHN Initials: J Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment: Welsh Regiment Unit Text: 6th Bn. Age: 47 Date of Death: 20/10/1915 Service No: 2940 Additional information: Husband of Mary Jane Lewis, of 8, Pant St., Danygraig, Swansea. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: 79. Cemetery: TALGARTH MENTAL HOSPITAL CEMETERY ++++ Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burlington Posted 6 December , 2005 Author Share Posted 6 December , 2005 Thanks Ian. I am certainly going to raise this with the CWGC. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_B Posted 6 December , 2005 Share Posted 6 December , 2005 I was reading a story, cannot remember where, of a Great War soldier who ended up in a "Mental Hospital" because of shellshock where he remained until his death sometime in 1960! Almost 50 years later. Just how many thousands of cases were they like this? Men/Women whose mental health was shattered by the War and were simply locked away and forgotten. Perhaps their's was the cruelest fate of all, condemed to exist in God knows what torment for year upon year. No memorial for them, not even a decent grave. It's no way to treat anyone ... A sad sad sight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 6 December , 2005 Share Posted 6 December , 2005 Don't jump to conclusions about shellshock. He was in his late 40s when he died in 1915 and may have never been anywhere near the front. I think it much more likely that he developed an entirely unrelated mental illness. May have had little or nothing to do with the war. It never pays to jump to conclusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 6 December , 2005 Share Posted 6 December , 2005 I think it much more likely that he developed an entirely unrelated mental illness. May have had little or nothing to do with the war. He may have been ill even before he went. Chris: Peter Barham, Forgotten Lunatics of the Great War, page 356, refers to one soldier who died in Friern Psychiatric Hospital in December 1987 at the age of 92. He had been admitted in October 1920. He was diagnosed as having schizophrenia in the later part of his life. It is recorded that twice in 1935 he expressed his frustrations by hurling a chamber pot at the Medical Superintendent. He was allowed a bank account to administer his own money and pension when he was nearly 80. Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 6 December , 2005 Share Posted 6 December , 2005 QUOTE (Chris_B @ Dec 6 2005, 04:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Just how many thousands of cases were they like this? Very, very many. And not just due to the War. People who were simply "different" were committed. Or young people who were "out of control". Or, in some cases, young women who had children out of wedelock were committed for being "feckless". Of course, it got better as knowledge about mental illness developed but, by then, many of those people had become institutionalised. And if they hadnt entered hospital with a recognised mental illness, they now had one. But there's still a tendency today to want the "nutters" locked up and out of our sight. Of course, we now say it's for their own protection, or ours. Mental illness remains very much a poor relation of our National Health Service. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian turner Posted 6 December , 2005 Share Posted 6 December , 2005 SDGW Does not further our knowledge too much - he is shown as 1/6th Bn and born and enlisted Swansea. Not unsurprisingly he is shown as 'Died Home'. As far as I can make out, he is shown on the 1901 census as a 33 yr old mason's labourer. (That one is on the same page as a 32 year old Mary Lewis, is residing in Swansea and is of the right age). Regardless of his active service or lack thereof, he died in uniform and is deserving of a better resting place? My guess, if he had suffered from mental illness unrelated to his service, he would probably have been discharged from the army? Guess it would take a view of his records to check further. Would CWGC hold any further information? Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 7 December , 2005 Share Posted 7 December , 2005 (edited) But there's still a tendency today to want the "nutters" locked up and out of our sight. Of course, we now say it's for their own protection, or ours. Mental illness remains very much a poor relation of our National Health Service. John John Having been off work for 6 months after being diagnosed with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder I can totally agree with your comments - you find out who your real friends are All The Best Chris Edited 7 December , 2005 by chrisharley9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 7 December , 2005 Share Posted 7 December , 2005 Chris I hope that you are along the road to healing. I know, from discussions with an e-friend, how long and ardous that particular road can be. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 7 December , 2005 Share Posted 7 December , 2005 Empathetic friends who see the real person, who see his or her essence and vitality and the inner vibrancy which still is there, who see past the diagnostic label, are very special people. Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 7 December , 2005 Share Posted 7 December , 2005 Thank you both for your kind comments All The Best Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 7 December , 2005 Share Posted 7 December , 2005 It is almost unheard of for CWGC to move bodies in the UK these days - even if Home Office and any relatives' permission could be obtained. The usual course of action in such cases is to remove the headstone and erect a new Special Memorial in a nearby churchyard or cemetery which states 'Buried in XYZ Cemetery'. This is what has happened in similar cases. The best course of action is for CWGC to make an agreement with the landowner for future maintenance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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