Visiting relative's grave : KIA Operation Michael

[dah]

I’ll be travelling to the Somme this coming weekend – and would much appreciate any further information to add to my limited knowledge about my relative:

John Helson

Royal Field Artillery

Lance Bombardier

‘B’ Batty, 293rd Brigade.

The CWGC site tells me he was KIA 21st March 1918 (i.e. Day 1 of Operation Michael).

He’s buried in Beaumetz Cross Roads cemetery which is located to the South of the Bapaume to Cambrai road, approx 12km to the west of the Canal du Nord,

Having paid only a quick visit to the cemetery previously (as part of a tour group), I noted that he is buried alongside 4 other members of the same battery – also killed on 21-3-18 (2 gunners, a bombadier and a Serjeant)

What deductions or further information is there to glean from this?

Which army or corps would he have been attached to? If the cemetery is located in reasonable proximity to his place of death (reasonable assumption?), then would that suggest he was in the Third army, XVII corps area?

What sort of gun would he have been associated with?

What part of the 3-stage flexible defence system would he have been positioned in?

I’m guessing he would be behind the forward zone, in the 2nd stage i.e. the battle-zone. The fact he is buried alongside 4 members of the same battery – suggests they may all have been killed in the initial German barrage early in the morning of the 21st March. Or, is it equally possible that they would have been killed by small arms fire from the German storm troopers (depends on where the battery was located at the time)

This is my first opportunity to visit when I am in control of my own time and transport – ie. not part of a tour group.

Grateful for any additional information or insights.

Many thanks,

David

[ian turner]

David,

You will need to research the orders of battle of the various divisions attached in the various corps in this army area. See the Long, Long Trail link, it has guides on this.

Normally RFA were the lighter, mobile artillery (such as 18 pounders) and would be in the 'forward area.' Maybe if you can identify which division he was attached to then, by checking its history for that period/day (war diary), it may give a clue as to whether the guns were over-run. If not, then you may only be able to speculate as to what happened - caught in a barrage, a 'premature' round exploding and killing the gun team, etc.

Ian

[Stuwii]

Long shot here as this post is 16 years ago. Did you get anywhere with this David? 

I am researching GNR Joseph Carney who was part of the same gun crew. On the commonwealth war graves site it mentions a grid reference where all 5 bodies were recovered from. That in theory would tell you where they where killed i would think. The problem is i cannot read trench maps and cannot figure where the location is. I've included a jpg with the coordinates on if anyone can help. "J35 C.2.2" if that makes sense to anyone.

I found Josephs 1914/15 Star in my dads possesions after he passed in 2019. Unsure if they were related but they both lived in the same area of Liverpool. I believe the 5 men were with the 25th division somewhere near Cambrai on the 21st March 1918 the day they died.

Stuart. 

Edited 20 October , 2021 by Stuwii
Added details

[Matlock1418]

1 hour ago, Stuwii said:

I am researching GNR Joseph Carney who was part of the same gun crew. On the commonwealth war graves site it mentions a grid reference where all 5 bodies were recovered from. That in theory would tell you where they where killed i would think. The problem is i cannot read trench maps and cannot figure where the location is. I've included a jpg with the coordinates on if anyone can help. "J35 C.2.2" if that makes sense to anyone.

Welcome to GWF

The coordinates are for first place of burial/place from which exhumed - may or may not be terribly close to where they were wounded if they later died of wounds.

I think the coordinates may be for Trench map Sheet 57b so if you put 57b.j.35.c.2.2 into tmapper http://www.tmapper.com you will, I think/hope, get the spot [I seem to have come up with Troisvilles - which now puzzles me! ??]

Others more skilled in this mapping art may give you a better steer/correct my effort.

Good luck.

:-) M

Edit; I'm now thinking Sheet 57c and thus 57c.j.35.c.2.2

Edited 20 October , 2021 by Matlock1418
correction/update - add edit

[Stuwii]

5 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said:

Welcome to GWF

The coordinates are for first place of burial/place from which exhumed - may or may not be terribly close to where they were wounded if they later died of wounds.

I think the coordinates may be for Trench map Sheet 57b so if you put 57b.j.35.c.2.2 into tmapper http://www.tmapper.com you will, I think/hope, get the spot [I seem to have come up with Troisvilles ??]

Others more skilled in this mapping art may give you a better steer/correct my effort.

Good luck.

:-) M

Excellent. Thank you. Yes i agree just on the outskirts of Troisvilles. 

I'd been on the tmapper website but did not know how to use it. 

Cheers

Stuart.

[Matlock1418]

23 minutes ago, Stuwii said:

Excellent. Thank you. Yes i agree just on the outskirts of Troisvilles. 

I'd been on the tmapper website but did not know how to use it. 

I'm still rather puzzling about the sheet number - having looked again at that Burial Return it rather looks more like it could be Sheet 57c at the top left - perhaps! ???

Hence seems more likely 57c.j.35.c.2.2

And yet that puzzles me too - but probably seems a better fit for 21 March 1918.

We seem to need another member(s) to perhaps properly sort this out for you! ???

:-) M

Edited 20 October , 2021 by Matlock1418
addition

[Stuwii]

That would be just by the bridge other side of the river looking at it. It may well be correct as its not far from the actual cemetery where they are buried. 

Like you say see what else someone else can add. Thanks again. 

Stuart.

[Matlock1418]

18 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said:

57c.j.35.c.2.2

Surely it's got to be!

:-) M

[jay dubaya]

Surely is...

[Stuwii]

Thanks guys. Impressed.  Much appreciated. 

Stuart. 

[jay dubaya]

The brigade wagon lines were heavily shelled on 21st March causing casualties amongst 40 horses, 1 officer and 4 men killed, 6 men wounded. 

[Stuwii]

As i thought. Shell strike. I know the artillery were hit as were the communication trenches early at the start of the attack approx 4:40 am. I figured it would either be H.E or Gas that had got them. 

Didn't stand much of a chance really did they as it was a well planned attack with everything being zeroed in before hand by reconnaissance. I assume the officer is Sgt Williams. I found a web page yesterday that mentioned him..

http://www.bridgend-today.co.uk/article.cfm?id=118504&headline=Match 1918 and four Porthcawlians are lost defending their lines&sectionIs=news&searchyear=2018

Stuart.