Slade-Wallice Leather Equipment Rig

[yellow]

I`m very much interested in building a rig of Slade-Wallis WW1 leather equipment. The problem is I know almost nothing about this rig!

I would love to know how it was worn during WW1. There are many books out there which show only the belt being worn on its own by a whole myriad of units.......it appears to have been very common at the time.

Was it ever worn in combat with ammo pouches?

As I am interesting in buying an original rig, how much do you think a realistic price would be for each item?

Also are their any variations e.g. a machine gunners rig like there are for O8 webbing rig?

Many thanks in advance for your time spent here.

Steve.

[Barry Q]

Off the top of my head, the Slade Wallace webbing set wasn't actually used 'at the front'. However, it was issued to training camps at the beginning of hostilities due to the shortage of the P08 and P14 sets. If memory serves, there were two different Slade Wallace webbing sets. One was the Valaise set. If you want a visual reference, just watch the film Zulu Dawn. The other set looks like the P14 set. A visual reference for this would be the film Zulu. I should point out, the cast in Zulu didn't put the webbing together correctly. Whoops!

[Dan Morton]

I've attached two pics. Number one is a pic of a "repro" set of white leather Slade-Wallace harness. Number two is a pic of RNVR 'D' Company Howe Battalion, Royal Naval Division in Vieux Dieu, Antwerp, 6 Oct 1914. I believe one or two of the sailors are wearing Slade-Wallace white belts, right? Please correct me if I'm wrong. I absolutely am no kind of uniform expert!

All the best,

Dan

[yellow]

Many thanks for your reply chaps.

From what you have said above does that mean all I need to build a WW1 rig is the belt?

Take a look at this pic. He appears to be qualified tank crew. The shoulder starp attaching loop can clearly be seen. So having gone back to the front he would of discarded this belt?

I have noticed that on some pics the Slade-Wallis is worn with a snake buckle and in others a buckle with a coat of arms..........anyone know why?

The rig I am trying to build is the brown leather rig rather than the white blanco rig. I will hopefully be able to aquire a snake buckle example.

Someone hinted on another forum that Australian also wore these, is that true?

Thanks again for your help.

Steve.

[Joe Sweeney]

Steve,

Are you actually asking about the P14 Infantry equipment? The belt in the photo of your post is P14 and not Slade Wallace. The loop is the extra loop that could be attached to wear the braces without ammo pouches.

Slade Wallace was retained by a lot of Regular battalions for wear with full dress (in fact it remained regulation for the guards long after P08 was being issued).

It was occasionally issued for training in the UK, but a full set being worn into active service would have been so rare I doubt it happened. May be an odd belt or two.

This photo is P14. This was developed in 1914 on the same principles as P08 and was widely issued and worn. It also had pistol rig attachments etc like P08. P14 is not Slade Wallace.

As for an original set, t now go for great deals of money if can even find one. Collecting pieces is also difficult--especially the braces.

Joe Sweeney

[yellow]

Hi Joe,

Many thanks for you input. You are right, I am getting confused here. Many thanks for the pic.

Are any of the components manufactured by James Dawson and Sons?

Can you point me to a dealer who has P14 items for sale?

Ive seen the complete webbing 08 rigs for sale at 550 Brit...........is the P14 even more pricey........surely not?

Thanks,

Steve.

[Grovetown]

Can you point me to a dealer who has P14 items for sale?

If you find one, you'll be killed in the stampede!

Ive seen the complete webbing 08 rigs for sale at 550 Brit...........is the P14 even more pricey........surely not?

That seems amazingly cheap. If they are £550, buy 10 and trade three or four for one set of 14.

Best wishes,

Grovetown.

[yellow]

In fact the dealer I mentioned has two sets for £550........your right it is cheap

http://www.target-arms.co.uk/index2.htm

So from what you have said Grovetown........ a complete rig of P14 would cost me near 550 multiplied by a factor of three or four?

Heres a link to a repro set:

http://www.reenactor.net/zzschipper/1b-a-p...brit-equip.html

Steve.

[Grovetown]

In fact the dealer I mentioned has two sets for £550........your right it is cheap

http://www.target-arms.co.uk/index2.htm

So from what you have said Grovetown........ a complete rig of P14 would cost me near 550 multiplied by a factor of three or four?

Heres a link to a repro set:

http://www.reenactor.net/zzschipper/1b-a-p...brit-equip.html

Steve.

Steve

The first set is missing both packs, the frog and helve carrier - all of which added in would push the 'set' nearer to the £1000 mark. Secondly, my experience of this guy's stock is that while it may be VGC, it's probably bright green. Add another premium for unblancoed.

As for the second set of pistol equipment, original brace attachments would be around £400 to £500 for a pair, so I would imagine that these elements, at least, are reproduction. The green thing applies too.

Depending on condition etc; I don't think you could get a good, complete set of 14 for anything less than £1500 and it would be more likely around £2K. If, and if, you could find a set. Most people have built theirs piecemeal.

Best wishes,

Grovetown.

[Joe Sweeney]

Steve,

I wholeheartily agree with Grovetown on the pricing and problems with acquiring the P14.

By the way the repro equip you posted the link to is very good stuff.

The guy who actually makes it lives about 20 minutes from me and he does a very good job.

That is if want to go repro as an alternative.

Joe Sweeney

[yellow]

Thank you both for the excellent replies.

The price hasnt put me off as I am determined to get a full rig. I know its easy to say but I may build the Slade Wallis and P14 from scratch as you have suggested....starting with the P14.

I assume the logical starting point is the belt......so I will look for one of those first. Will try a few militaria fairs but if this gear is as rare as you both say I guess the laugh will be on the dealers when I tell them what I am looking for!

Steve.

[Joe Sweeney]

Thank you both for the excellent replies.

The price hasnt put me off as I am determined to get a full rig. I know its easy to say but I may build the Slade Wallis and P14 from scratch as you have suggested....starting with the P14.

I assume the logical starting point is the belt......so I will look for one of those first. Will try a few militaria fairs but if this gear is as rare as you both say I guess the laugh will be on the dealers when I tell them what I am looking for!

Steve.

Steve,

Belt is a good starting point and not unreasonable to find. Make sure all straps are present as a lot of belts have had the lower straps cut off.

People wont really start laughing until you ask about braces and entrenching tool head carriers.

Joe Sweeney

[Chief_Chum]

Hi Joe and everyone else,

I recently bought an original E-tool head carrier on ebay for £440! Sounds heavy but I have been lucky enough to find most of the rest of my set piecemeal for very little - and I have been looking for a very long time. I now need one brace, the helve holder and the pair of valise straps for a full set...

Steve - are you planning to wear the stuff or just display it? The real stuff won't stand much knocking about after 90 years. If you want to wear it go for the repro stuff. I believe that the best repro sets of '14 pattern and Slade Wallace (in proper thickness buff leather - not white) are made by Khaki Devil. I know I have an interest in saying that as I co-own it but I have never seen better stuff. Kev is just gearing up to make some new sets and is about to order a new grained hide.

It's likely that they will be on-stream in January.

Cheers,

Taff

[yellow]

Yet more sound advice from the men who know....my thanks.

The rig is not intended for wear........I realise that 100 year old leather is not the most stable material. These will be for my collection only.

I was speaking with a dealer today who has located a Slade Wallis belt for me in excellent condition.......The price is £50 and there are I believe regimental markings inside. I thought it might be West Yorks but you chaps will have to confirm. Photos coming soon.

He says he knows of another dealer with a P14 belt however this will be more expensive. Any ideas what I should pay for this? How much difference is there in price for an example with cut off straps?

Thanks,

Steve.

[Chief_Chum]

Hi Steve,

£50 seems about average for a Slade Wallace belt but do check to make sure it still has the three brass buckles at the back - and make sure the leather loops are not missing at the front too. I have quite a few 1888 pattern belts and they are all unit marked. One old friend of mine gave me the one he was wearing with 1/Suffolk in Malta in 1939. When the Btn were returning home to prepare for war they were all ordered to be burnt but Reg stuffed his into the bottom of his kitbag and kept it.

'14 Pattern belts in good condition seem to be making between £75-£135. An incomplete one with straps missing may be £50-£100 but they often make more as they are getting very hard to find.

Good luck with your search!

Taff

www.khakidevil.co.uk

[yellow]

'14 Pattern belts in good condition seem to be making between £75-£135. An incomplete one with straps missing may be £50-£100 but they often make more as they are getting very hard to find.

£75 sounds very reasonable, I'll have a dig at that money! I thought you were going to say the best part of £250!!!!

The 1888 belt I just purchased has a clasp buckle with a Victorian dished crown and lion. There are no rear attachments. Looks like I dropped a clanger already doesnt it?

Steve.

[Chief_Chum]

A lot of the Slade Wallace belts have been repaired in service numerous times and, once there was no longer a need to fasten any straps to the belt, many had the rear section replaced with a plain section of leather - but probably in the '20s and '30s...

The Guards were still wearing most of the equipment on ceremonial duty up to the outbreak of the second World War.

For a very, very basic overview of the kit get hold of the Osprey books on British Infantry Equipment - 1808-1908 and 1908-1980. They are not definitive by any means but will, at least, show you what you are looking for.

Cheers,

Taff

[Joe Sweeney]

Hi Joe and everyone else,

I recently bought an original E-tool head carrier on ebay for £440! Sounds heavy but I have been lucky enough to find most of the rest of my set piecemeal for very little - and I have been looking for a very long time. I now need one brace, the helve holder and the pair of valise straps for a full set...

Taff

Hi Taff,

This is a story of if "I was only smarter". Back about 15 years ago I surfaced a box of 15 American made head tool carriers from of all places Montana. I kept 4 of the best and let Malcolm of Regimentals have the rest for about £50.

If only had those now.

Take care,

Joe Sweeney

Edited 2 December , 2005 by Joe Sweeney

[Chief_Chum]

Hi Joe,

If only you did!

...and I would much rather buy one from you!!

With best wishes,

Taff

[yellow]

I have my belts. Could I perhaps have your opinion on these and if there is any bad news please tell me.

I now have the opportunity of a Slade Wallis plus two ammo pouches.......price £500.

I hope the last belt is a P14?

Next question......the bayonet........Lee Metford or Lee Enfield for the 1914.........as I am trying to recreate a 4th Lincolns rig they used the Lee Metford.........are the frogs for both bayonets for the P14 almost identical?

Many Thanks,

Steve.

[Chief_Chum]

You're a lucky boy Steve,

An intact '14 pattern belt with the brace attachments too! Very nice.

Service battalions used quite a variety of rifles and bayonets. If 4th Lincs used Metfords then that's what you should have in the bayonet frog. However, very few battalions did use Metfords - most used the Long Lee which looks similar but is, actually, quite different.

The buff leather belt is certainly marked to the west Yorks but the original leather looks like it has been replaced - maybe before the Great War - but if not in the '20s or '30s. £500 sounds very top heavy for an 1888 belt and two pouches but, if you do splash out, make sure you check that the belt is complete with all its buckles.

If you decide to part with those brace attachments when you buy your pair of '14 pattern ammo pouches, let me know!

Cheers,

Taff

[yellow]

Many thanks for the information......I guess you win some you lose some.

I forgot to add the P14 does have the mans regimental number on the inside......51175.

Sorry I didnt realise the P14 brace attachments are an item on their own. Lets hope I havent upset the dealer because I think he wouldnt be best pleased if he knew that. Lets hush that one up :-)

I am 100% sure the 4th were using the Metford in 1915. the thing is I know I could put my hands on a Lee-Enfield P14 frog (brass buckle) tomorrow and it is really tempting. The 4th did use that rifle later on. Perhaps I shall sleep on it.

The Slade Wallis was interesting but it doesnt have the rear attachments which you describe......so from what you have said its probably best left alone.

Another question......the water bottle............is it a Mark V blue enamel for the P14?

Thanks again,

Steve.

Edited 2 December , 2005 by yellow

[Chief_Chum]

The Metford/Long Lee/SMLE bayonets will all fit the '14 Pattern frog. Make sure it still has the leather strap on the back for the e-tool helve holder. Dealers have been known to pass '03 frogs off as '14 ones so take care.

Great War waterbottles are "Waterbottle, 2 pint, Blue enamelled"!

Cheers,

Taff

[yellow]

I have been doing some swotting up on the subject as you suggested.

This months Armourer magazine has an entire page of water bottles. It kind of worried me for a second when I saw a MKVI in an emergency carrier (1940) looking a lot like a Mark V for a P14.

Steve.

[John Thorne]

I talked to the fellow at Target Arms about the P08 machine gunner's rig but he could not say for certain that the brace attachments were genuine. Here is set of P08 infantry gear, complete marching order. All of the pieces are 1915 dated except the equipment straps (which are dated 1912) and the helve holder (it's dated 1918.)