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Royal Artillery Units


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  • 5 months later...
  • 6 months later...

Hi All

Just tried to trace a number raised in another topic http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=210814 with the new Royal Artillery Attestations database on Find My Past and found it doesn't have service numbers beginning with six in the series given in this thread. Does this mean that the attestation books that have been digitised are for regular units only?

Best

Justin

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Justin,

I have no idea having not looked at that site, but for the TF ( which is what was being talked about in that thread ) they would not have attested with a six figure number but with numbers between 1 and a 4 figure number. Because of the duplication of numbers between TF units is the reason why they were renumbered from the start of 1917 with their own unique series. Any TF six figure number would only appear after that date. Perhaps they haven't the attestations for the TF ( or embodiment records ). One would have thought that they would have indicated the type of records they are making available.

Kevin

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi everyone - just wondering what you make of this RFA number 10203? I believe it belongs to my grandfather, Chares Podmore's MIC. In the "corps" box it says "1st Reinf. PBD RFA." Any ideas what that means? The qualifying date is 18.8.14.

Thanks

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Hello sammybill

First reinforcement Permanent Base Details. Each unit took an extra 10% of its strength overseas to replace the early casualties, and these men were left at a Base depot until required. There were also a few others in this draft who were in charge of replacement stores, on a scale of one storeman per company, squadron or battery, and the "Permanent" might mean he was one of those.

Ron

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Thanks very much Ron. Forgot to mention grandad was a driver on a horse. In the RFA, what would he most likely be carrying with his horse team. Guns, ammunition or just about anything? Please excuse my ignorance.

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Hello sammybill

About 25% of the drivers with an RFA battery would have driven the teams pulling the guns. The rest drove teams pulling ammunition wagons, or a few other vehicles such as tool wagons or a cooks' wagon.

Most of the guns used by the RFA were very similar to those still used by the Royal Horse Artillery today, so if you have ever seen one of their displays, or the firing ofa Royal Salute in Hyde Park, you will have a fair idea of what a gun team looked like.

Ron

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In October 2012 post 72 of this thread referred to a regimental number L/xxxx and post 73 replied that these were recruited locally. On 08/02/1915 the Bolton Evening News reported that Lord Kitchener had requested Lord Derby to raise two Brigades of Field Artillery and a Battery of Heavy Artillery. On 01/03/1915 the BEN reported that one Battery of Field Artillery was to be raised in each of the following towns: Liverpool, Preston, Bolton, Manchester, Blackburn, Warrington, Wigan and St Helens. These Batteries were to be known as Comrade's Batteries. On 25/03/1915 the BEN identified the Bolton Comrade's Battery as D Battery, 148 Brigade RFA. The Brigades were known as the County Palatine Royal Artillery. At the same time the Manchester Recruiting Committee raised RE Units in Manchester and surrounding towns, these were known as the County Palatine Royal Engineers (or Manchester Engineers). These RA and RE Units were raised to form a complete Division with the service battalions recently raised in Liverpool and Manchester. CPRA men mentioned in the BEN later in the war had service numbers L/xxxx. In October 1915 Lord Derby made a further appeal for more men to join the CPRA, to serve in 30 and 32 Divisions. I would be interested to know how these locally recruited RA Units were numbered.

Brian

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I would be interested to know how these locally recruited RA Units were numbered.

Brian

Hello Brian

Looking just at the RFa, four brigades wre formed between 1908 and 1914 for each TF Division, and were numbered I, II, III and IV followed by the name of their division, though in the case of London and Lancashire, which each raised two divisions, the brigades were numbered up to VIII. Three bridages were equipped with 15-pounder guns (later they were given 18-pounders) and had three four-gun batteries each, and the fourth (usually IV or VIII) had two four-gun batteries of howitzers. The individual batteries were numbered from 1 upwards for each county (or sometimes large town) in which they were raised. The Lancashire batteries were numbered 1 to 20 Lancs, and two Cumberland batteries, both of howitzers, were added to complete the division.

When the TF divisions were numbered in May 1915, in the order in which they went overseas, the RFA brigades were re-numbered from 200 upwards in a single series, according to the sequential number of their division but, rather oddly, omitting any number ending in 4 or 9. Thus the brigades of 42 (E Lancs) Div were 200 to 203, those of 43 (Wessex) Div were 205 to 208, and so on, up to the 350s. Officially the brigades were numbered in Romal (CC etc) but both forms are found, and in most cases the ordinary Arabic numbers were normally used.

I don't know why the numbers ending in 4 or 9 were used but I suspect it may have been intended to include a heavy brigade in each division as well. In the end this did not happen, all heavy batteries having been withdrawn from divisions by the end of Feb 1915.

Many of the RFA TF brigades were allowed extra descriptions to show where they were raised. the County Palatine was one of these, and so was the Bolton Artillery.

Ron

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Guest asterritt

I have a letter dated Feb.5/1915 sent to my grandfather from Private Clarence B Denman (No. 25944) No. 3 Company, 14th Bn. Royal Montreal Regt. 1st Canadian Contingent (British Expeditionary Force). In the letter he talks about the King's visit the day before and numerous other things about Salisbury Plain and other numerous things. I am researching to find out more about this soldier and his regiment. I came across this ...

http://www.examiner.co.uk/lifestyle/nostalgia/nostalgia-resting-place-forever-canada-4927044

Very interesting as there are comments regarding this particular soldier. I am looking for more information, if anyone on this forum has any information I would greatly appreciate it and thank you. Marnie

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Hello Marnie, and welcome to the Forum!

You will have better luck if you start a new thread in the Soldiers section of the Forum. Click on "Start new post" on the upper right of the screen, choose a thread title that gives your man's name and regiment, and repeat the message in your first post. You can do this easily using cut and paste.

That way you are more likely to attract the attention of people who can help you, rather than by burying your question in an entirely different thread. Don't worry, you'll soon get the hang of it!

Good luck!

Ron

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Brian

The one Heavy Battery listed in the BEN on 8th Feb will

almost certainly be 125th County Palatine Heavy Battery.

Soldier's numbers started at L/1.

125 had most of the men upto L/250 when they started to move

across to 133 CP HB, although there is lots in 125 after L/250

including L/448.

I would be interested in any clippings you have relating to the formation of 125.

perhaps you could PM me.

I think from the MICs new numbers for the RGA started at 291999 Gunner John Williams RGA for the soldier who held L/1 not 292001.

regards

Alan.

Edited by Alan24
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On 18/05/2014 at 04:35, brianmorris547 said:

In October 2012 post 72 of this thread referred to a regimental number L/xxxx and post 73 replied that these were recruited locally. On 08/02/1915 the Bolton Evening News reported that Lord Kitchener had requested Lord Derby to raise two Brigades of Field Artillery and a Battery of Heavy Artillery. On 01/03/1915 the BEN reported that one Battery of Field Artillery was to be raised in each of the following towns: Liverpool, Preston, Bolton, Manchester, Blackburn, Warrington, Wigan and St Helens. These Batteries were to be known as Comrade's Batteries. On 25/03/1915 the BEN identified the Bolton Comrade's Battery as D Battery, 148 Brigade RFA. The Brigades were known as the County Palatine Royal Artillery. At the same time the Manchester Recruiting Committee raised RE Units in Manchester and surrounding towns, these were known as the County Palatine Royal Engineers (or Manchester Engineers). These RA and RE Units were raised to form a complete Division with the service battalions recently raised in Liverpool and Manchester. CPRA men mentioned in the BEN later in the war had service numbers L/xxxx. In October 1915 Lord Derby made a further appeal for more men to join the CPRA, to serve in 30 and 32 Divisions. I would be interested to know how these locally recruited RA Units were numbered.

Brian

Brian,

I think the following is what you may be asking, or I may be wrong;

New Local Units of RA authorised to be raised to 8th July 1915.

Date of Authority

1st Feb 1915

Gun Brigade & AC RFA 148th (1st County Palatine) Brigade; Liverpool, Preston, Bolton

ditto 149th ( ditto ) Brigade; Manchester, Oldham, Rochdale, Bury

ditto 150th ( ditto ) Brigade; Blackburn

Howitzer Brigade & AC RFA 151st ( ditto) Howitzer Brigade; Wigan, Warrington, Earlstown, Widnes, St. Helens

125th (1st County Palatine) Heavy Battery & 30th DAC (1st County Palatine)

22nd April 1915

165th (2nd County Palatine) Brigade; Liverpool

169th ( ditto ) Brigade

170th ( ditto ) Brigade

171st ( ditto ) Howitzer Brigade

32nd ( ditto ) DAC

12th May 1915

133 (2nd County Palatine) Heavy Battery

I do not have the official authorities after this but there was obviously 136 (3rd County Palatine) Heavy Battery later so there may have been some more RFA Brigades.

Kevin

On 19/05/2014 at 01:51, Alan24 said:

Brian

The one Heavy Battery listed in the BEN on 8th Feb will

almost certainly be 125th County Palatine Heavy Battery.

Soldier's numbers started at L/1.

125 had most of the men upto L/250 when they started to move

across to 133 CP HB, although there is lots in 125 after L/250

including L/448.

I would be interested in any clippings you have relating to the formation of 125.

perhaps you could PM me.

I think from the MICs new numbers for the RGA started at 291999 Gunner John Williams RGA for the soldier who held L/1 not 292001.

regards

Alan.

Alan,

I tried to sort out the locally raised battery numbering here,

Kevin

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi have stumbled across this post. I'm researching a fellow RFA John DC Lyon 950654, he volunteered in 1914 at kennington London. from what I have gathered he was in the 300 bde 2/5 and then A bty 15th bge where about would he be stationed??

Any information would be grateful received :thumbsup:

Many thanks

Rachel

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Hi have stumbled across this post. I'm researching a fellow RFA John DC Lyon 950654, he volunteered in 1914 at kennington London. from what I have gathered he was in the 300 bde 2/5 and then A bty 15th bge where about would he be stationed??

Any information would be grateful received :thumbsup:

Many thanks

Rachel

Hello Rachel

300 Brigade RFA, formerly 2/5th London Brigade, was part of 60th (2/2nd London) Division. It served on the Western Front from June 1916 before being sent to Macedonia (Salonika) in November of that year, and then in June 1917 it was sent to Egypt, and spent the rest of the war there and in Palestine.

Do you know whether he was in 15 Bde RFA or 15 Bde RHA?

Ron

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Post #93...

I've seen a scan of the original document which is the one held by McMaster University Canada.

Where are the maps? As these references are not in the original.

There are several typo errors in the transcption.

There are at least 4 real errors here that I know of.

1. It was Gnr E West killed on 22 Jul 16 with Broadhurst not R Wall.

2. R Wall was killed on 7 Sept 16...when the author says there were no serious casualties!

3. It was part of 174 HB not 17 HB that made up the 6 guns.

4. Killed on 12th April 17 should read KENT, GURR and BUNGEY ...the latter being my own great grandfather.

overall an interesting document but with serious errors.

I found it amazing how it mirrored my GGF's personal diary for the period April 16 to April 17.

having seen a copy of the original document there is no author but clearly an officer who kept notes.

Alan.

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Hello Rachel

300 Brigade RFA, formerly 2/5th London Brigade, was part of 60th (2/2nd London) Division. It served on the Western Front from June 1916 before being sent to Macedonia (Salonika) in November of that year, and then in June 1917 it was sent to Egypt, and spent the rest of the war there and in Palestine.

Do you know whether he was in 15 Bde RFA or 15 Bde RHA?

Ron

Hello Ron

From all the information I have gathered so far he was in the A bty 15th bge of the RFA. If I have got this right he was part of the above as u mentioned and when he went over to France in 1916 he moved over to A/15th. he was KIA on the 28/10/17 in Zillebeke (I'm not 100% sure its just what I have come to following the war diary for the A/15) and is buried at Menin Rd south

Cheers

Rachel

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Rachel

On 31 August 1916 300 Bde was broken up, the sections being sent to 301 and 302 Bdes in the same division, to make batteries up from four to six guns each. This was in line with a general reorganisation around that time.

Prior to the division's departure for Macedonia in Nov 1916, the brigades reverted to the four-gun battery basis and the sections of the old 300 Bde were used to form two new batteries, one of which was A Battery 28 Brigade, in 5th Division. On 21 Jan 1917 this battery became A Battery, 15 Brigade, also in 5th Division, so it seems that your man stayed behind when 60th Div went to Macedonia.

The battery remained in 15 Brigade RFA, 5th Division for the rest of the War. It went briefly to Italy in the first quarter of 1918 before returning to France.

Ron

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I have a copy of the scan from McMasters

  1. As to the maps I am doing some research on 158257 Gunner Joseph Henry Tate Farrow who died who died of wounds on 2April 1918, the maps which I produced was so that his relatives can see his progress during the war.
  2. I have no control on what was written (perhaps you have more information that you would like to share).
  3. Are you sure that 174 Bty and not 17 Bty. or perhaps 117 Bty made the Bty up to 6 Guns.
  4. R Wall was seriously wounded, he subsequently died (no date given)
  5. If you would like a copy of the Historical Record from McMasters Email me off Forum johnareed60@hotmail.com

John

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Hello Ron

so far (if i have got this right, getting very confused. com!) he volunteered in 1914 to the 300 bge and went over to France in June 1916 with the 60th which he then became a/15 in Jan 17!

If this is correct are there any diary's that it can look at (have been reading the a/15

Just trying to tie up the lose ends

Many thanks

Rachel

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