Royal Artillery Units

[DrElaine]

Paul - you are very knowledgeable and helpful!

Would you be able to advise, please, on when and where my husband's grand-father, John Norwell, is likely to have joined up. He was a driver with the RFA/RHA and was killed on 23rd October 1918. His service number was 159255 and according to the Commonwealth Graves Commission database he was with B Battery, 251st Brigade.

In anticipation, many thanks

DrElaine

[Bathe]

Not too sure how this fits with the renumbering but my grandfather was a RGA gunner (not regular army)

His attestation was sworn on 11 December 1915 at Lewisham and he was mobilised 8 June 1916 (No 1 Depot RGA Fort Burgoyne Dover)

His first number was 20154 and was later given a new number 96342.

He started his overseas service with 132 Siege Battery in Salonika 18 January 1917 and later transferred to 424 Siege Battery (also in the Balkans) 17 March 1918

It doesn't look as if the second number was long enough to fit the TF series - any ideas?

[kevinrowlinson]

DrElaine

I would suggest early August 1916 for John Norwell, although he may have attested as early as Nov 1915.

Siegebatteries

I not sure where you got the 20154 number from but the 96342 is a continuation of the regular numbers, for the duration of war, and would have been the one he was given at Fort Burgoyne at the start of June 1916.

Kevin

[Bathe]

Siegebatteries

I not sure where you got the 20154 number from but the 96342 is a continuation of the regular numbers, for the duration of war, and would have been the one he was given at Fort Burgoyne at the start of June 1916.

Kevin

My Grandfather's service papers are severely charred, so it is a question of teasing out little bits of info.

One copy of his attestation form has what I assumed was his original service number in the top right corner as 201[54] - the last two figures are in white on the ash of the form. The other copy has the same number in the top left corner as ??154. Have I pent ages trying to tease out a filing reference!?!

[kevinrowlinson]

Quote, "Have I pent ages trying to tease out a filing reference!?! "

Maybe. I cannot see why he would have had another number in this instance. If you could decipher all the numbers on the top of these Derby Scheme forms you would be half way to knowing exactly how they were mobilised. I don't think it was as straight forward as some would lead us to believe.

Kevin

[armontieth1]

I am making a record of my family history and I was wondering if you could let me know were I might find informtaion about the 22nd BDE RFA? According to my Grandfather (R M H Watson Reg No. 65462) medal record he was in the 22 BGE when he went to france (6/10/1914). My mother told me that he recieved the "Mons Star" with bar. I believe the "bar" part means that he came under fire during 1914. I do not know his rank in the RFA, although it is on the record I am not not know what the abbreviations used means.

[Phil Evans]

I haven't got access to the image, but looking at TNA, they have him as Driver and Bombardier.

Phil

[laughton]

Graham et al:

I just knew I might find something about this unit on the GWF and with a simple search, there was the post. Four years ago but still there and ready to be addressed.

My question relates to the 6th Coy, Royal Garrison Artillery so I hope that I have attached the correct page from your previous post with that unit.

My family originated in Orkney (1771) and our family has been retracing the family tree since John Ivan Laughton started this work in 1960. It has been passed down the generations and in 2003 I started to assemble all of the works into a web based family tree, so it would be available for review by all family members, worldwide. Bear with me on this a bit and you will see it all comes together to the question. Details are here:

http://www.censol.ca/research/familytree/

I am now back in the era of my Great-Great-Great-Grandfather John Laughton (Born April 30, 1801) who resided in Orkney. One of his nine (9) children was Sarah Laughton (born February 13, 1833), who married David Wooldrage, who then in turn had nine (9) children, one of which was the 2nd Sarah Laughton who married John Dishan. If you are losing me on this you can see that particular part of the family tree here:

http://www.censol.ca/research/familytree/c...hn1801_2009.jpg

Sarah Laughton and John Dishan had 3 sons and 1 daughter and 1 of the sons was killed in action in the Great War. He was my "Second Cousin Twice Removed" if you are into this genealogical tracing terminology. If anyone wants the "cheat sheet" to show how you can determine your relationship with your ancestors, I would be pleased to provide those details.

I was able to find my Cousin John Dishan on the CWGC site and at the UKNA, as fortunately there were only two that were candidates and only one from Orkney.

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_detail...asualty=1498956

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...p;resultcount=2

The CWGC site says he was with the 6th Coy (Orkney) of the Royal Garrison Artillery. I checked that against the list posted in November 2005 and it says (if I interpreted it correctly) that the unit was in Gibraltar. The CWGC site says he is on the KIRKEE 1914-1918 Memorial in India. I gather some of the 6th Coy strayed a bit from Gibraltar?

Heck no, that is not my question, that is just the preamble. As I now have "Laughton" clan members from around the world participating in this project, I received a photograph of the family home near Kirkwall, Orkney that was assumed to be circa WWI. It shows 3 soldiers (in what appear to be WWI era uniforms) assisting at the family homestead known as "Vigga". The back of the photograph says that the woman 2nd from the right (next to the soldier with the shovel) is Margaret Laughton (born December 17, 1826), who would be the sister my Great-Great-Great-Aunt Sarah Laughton (1833). If that picture was taken during the Great War that would mean that the Margaret Laughton (1826) in this picture was over 80 years old - that is not what shows. I would guess that woman was in her mid-40's.

Now we are getting close to the question. Since nobody in our clan had found out that Sarah Laughton (1833) had a grandson who served and died in the Great War (the son of her Daughter Sarah married to John Dishan - dates not known - yet), then they might not have thought that one of the soldiers shown here might have been George William Dishan #368324 serving with the 6th Coy, Royal Garrison Artillery. I suspect there was a unit in Orkney based on their strategic situation. Everyone thinks these are just some soldiers who came to help at the farm .... maybe so, but maybe not. I think the female in the picture is Sarah, the daughter of Sarah 1833 (that age might match) and that one of the lads in the picture might be her son George. Since there are 3 soldiers in the picture (there is also one hat just visible to the right) it might be that these are all 3 of Sarah's sons.

So, for the final question, can anyone tell from this photograph whether these men are dressed as they might have been in the 6th Coy, Royal Garrison Artillery in the Great War?

If not, can anyone tell me that these are WW1 era uniforms and not uniforms of a unit in the mid 1800's, to match what the date is noted on the picture. Sure looks like WW1 boys to me but I am not expert on uniforms.

Your assistance is most appreciated.

Richard Laughton (1952)

Here is the picture:

For all those Artillery fans out there the unit locations as from the 1st July 1913 will now appear.

Graham.

[kevinrowlinson]

I may be wrong, but I would think that the 6 Coy you refer to is more likely to be his home unit; No. 6 Coy, Orkney RGA (TF). See http://www.warpath.orbat.com/misc_units/coast_def.htm . How he got to India is another question, but it was becoming common, from a lot of TF records I have seen, for TF gunners to be transferred/attached to the regular RGA from about 1916. He may well have gone out with them.

Although I think the photo is likely to be the Great War era, I am not convinced their cap badges are RA.

Kevin

[laughton]

Thanks for that information .... every piece of the puzzle is important!

Here is a better quality image of the soldiers at Vigga:

http://www.censol.ca/temp/Vigga_Soldiers.jpg

I was not sure if pre-WW1 soldiers wore a similar uniform - I assume not based on Boer War photos.

Richard

[IainB]

I'm really glad I read this post - I'm researching Gunner John Wright Mackay - 91534 - and from his MIC I assumed that 150B meant the 150 Battery. Similar to the earlier post, he enlisted at the citadel in Plymouth 1st June 1916 but John was from Dundee. Family folklore suggest that he was an "intelligence officer" in Ireland but I'm not so sure given his enlistment in the RGA. Do you have access to the Roll or does it mean a visit to the Archives Paul?

[kevinrowlinson]

Gunner MacKay was posted to 10 Coy, then 43 Coy at Queenstown on the 8 June 1916. He returned to Prees Heath on the 29 April 1918. It is difficult to say where he went to, but obviously he left again on the 1 July 1918 and arrived 2 July 1918 (France?), and posted/attached I believe to the Intelligence Corp. If you do not have his records then PM me your email address.

Kevin

[Moston]

Trying to discover anything tangible about Dvr Ernest E Byard L 18431.

All we know for certain is that he was at Somme on 1st July 1916 - so that narrows it down tremendously....NOT.

Any idea from his SN which battery/ammunition column? - I have the feeling (can't prove it) that he was 148th Bdge Ammunition Column /30th Div Amm Col. ?

Anyone have any ideas?

(Medal card / entry in register silent and service resords destroyed).

[harkerr@btinternet.com]

Hi

I'm interested in two RFA soldiers for whom I have the MIC's but no service records and no other information and wondered whether anyone can give me any information from their service numbers. I belive they are regular army numbers and probably conscripts, can a date and place of enlistment be identified from these numbers?

William Arthur Whitaker

No. 144103

Joseph Metcalfe

No 148903

Died 27/2/1917

Possibly enlisted at Keighley

Any information would be appreciated

Thanks

Richard

[harkerr@btinternet.com]

Just wondering whether anyone can help regarding my previous post.

Regards

Richard

[kevinrowlinson]

148902 E. C. Moncaster attested 11-12-1915, Louth, mobilised to Newcastle and arrived 13-5-1916.

148905 G. Mansfield attested 8-12-1915, Thirsk, mobilised to Newcastle and arrived 12-5-1916

144095 D. McKechnie mobilised to Glasgow 5-8-1916

If the RFA numbering is anything like the RGA then it is not unusual that an earlier number, and batch, may be given out later. At the moment these are likely enlistment dates until someone does a proper RFA number data base.

Kevin

[harkerr@btinternet.com]

Thanks for your reply Kevin, that certainly ties it down more accurately and the dates do seem to stack up.

Regards

Richard

[David B]

Hi Guys,

My grandfather joined in 1885 with the service number of 46952. I assume that when he was recalled in 1914 he would

have been part of the Special Reserve and not the territorials, however his war time numbers were 3394 and 278394 and he was

the RSM of 30 HAG

David

[DavoT]

Hi,

where would 285359 Dvr Walter Timperley's number fit in. Didn't see it on the start of this thread. TIA.

Cheers,

David

[paul leeson]

Hi

Any ideas where Gnr Berry 145655 [a London lad but probably not TF] would fit into the original list.

Thank you.

Paul.

[kevinrowlinson]

Quote, "Hi Guys,

My grandfather joined in 1885 with the service number of 46952. I assume that when he was recalled in 1914 he would

have been part of the Special Reserve and not the territorials, however his war time numbers were 3394 and 278394 and he was

the RSM of 30 HAG

David "

He enlisted into the Special Reserve, normally for 1 year although this soon changed, and therefore was not mobilised from the reserve of his previous period of service and was not obliged to do so if he did not want to. The RGA Special Reserve started at 1, and was renumbered at the start of 1917 by adding 275000. This S/R is not to be confused with the Cork S/R which only adds to the confusion.

Quote, "Hi,

where would 285359 Dvr Walter Timperley's number fit in. Didn't see it on the start of this thread. TIA.

Cheers,

David"

and

"Hi

Any ideas where Gnr Berry 145655 [a London lad but probably not TF] would fit into the original list.

Thank you.

Paul."

There is no reason why they should be in the list. They are probably both regular numbers for the RFA.

If you find sufficient records for gunners close to these numbers it will probably help to determine the likely enlistment dates.

At a wild guess, and looking at my earlier post, I would say 145655 Gnr. Berry probably enlisted mid 1916, and 285359 Gnr. Timperley looks like a late enlistment or transfer. It would be a worthwhile project for someone to sort out the RFA regular series of enlistment dates.

Kevin

[paul leeson]

Hi Kevin

Gnr Berry's MIC would imply he was post 1916 and I know he served in Palastine in 1917 so I assume he was in 60th Div but I can't get much further than that.

Paul

[Colin.j]

Hi

Can anyone suggest when my uncle, John Stockdale Green, enlisted in the RFA. The only information I have ever been able to find is taken from his MIC, and the Absent Voters List, held at N. Yorks. R.O. These show that he was 63305 Driver Green, John S., and that he went to France on 26.9.1915. The A.V.L. gives his unit as "A" Batt., 113th. Bde., RFA. These would appear to suggest that he was originally part of 25th. Division Artillery. I had always assumed that he volunteered in November 1914, along with his brother, who I know enlisted in the ASC on 30.11.1914, but the service numbers quoted at the beginning of this thread now make me wonder. Any ideas or suggestions, please.

Thank you, Colin Jackson

[Guest jamesfrankcom]

My great-great uncle, James Edwin Frankcom (used the form Edwin James) joined the army as Gunner 38578 Edwin James Frankcom with the Royal Field Artillery on the 18^th August 1905, he was attached to the 127^th Battery Royal Field Artillery, transferred to the Army Reserve on the 17^th August 1908 and was recalled an mobilized on the 5^th August 1914 for service in the 1914-1918 War. He was demobilized on the 21 May 1919 and placed on the Z Reserve being finally discharged from the Army on the 31 March 1920. He was born in Bristol in 1885 and married in 1911. He died in Bristol of pulmonary tuberculosis in 1929 leaving seven children.

As he is my name sake I would love to have some idea about where it is likely he served. Is there any way of finding out or records showing where his battery were posted?

Best regards

James Frankcom

jfrankcom@btinternet.com

[Sandcroft]

Dear Monty97,

I have an interest in the 22nd Bde., R.F.A. and have some information about the unit. If you wish, I might be able to help you with your research.

Regards,

Sandcroft