Loos

[Guest wrinklyone]

I'm delighted that so many folk here are pursuing aspects of Loos, and in particular the role of the Buffs - 650 of their names are listed at Dud Corner.

I believe that this horrendous action has not received the attention from the great British public that it deserves - overshadowed in general perceptions, obviously, by Somme and Salient.

And specifically, any commemoration of Loos seems to be focussed on the tremendous involvement of the Scots. No problem at all with that, but I have long felt (pace Paul Reed) that the sacrifices of 21 Div and 24 Div merit greater awareness than they have received.

Tell me I'm wrong.

[Paul Reed]

Not wrong at all. Coming from Sussex, I have researched many lads of the 9th Bn (24th Div) who held out against incredible odds at Fosse 8 and The Dump for several days in September 1915. They lost 19 officers and 362 men in this action, their most costly battle of the war.

Personally I think this year Loos has gradually begun to creep into the public conciousness; Niall Cherry's excellent book will have helped, the ceremonies at Loos, Peter Last's activities, and I notice the Loos pages of my website have had an incredible number of visitors. All very encouraging.

[toofatfortakeoff]

There was a ceremony for the 46th North Midland Division this year and maybe there were more and a stone is planned. Do Loos as a search through this site. There was a big news campaign went on in the Midlands a coupkle of years back when a French farmer started used part of the site as a rubbish tip..

[armourersergeant]

being a 21st div man at Loos I could not agree more.

My site gets a few watchers every so often. i really must do some more work on it.

regards

Arm

[andigger]

Arm - Just a suggestion, make the link to your site a little bigger in your signature. Honestly I look at most everyones sites, and until now I never noticed yours. Just my two cents.... Andy

[armourersergeant]

that better?

Arm

[andigger]

I approve. Andy

[truthergw]

As someone who's interest in WW1 was sparked by the loss of a Grandfather at this battle, I am also delighted in the increased interest. Just about every mention of this battle, from an article in a journal to a book, used to start with " this long forgotten battle " or words to that effect.

No man's contribution should be minimised. The reason for the emphasis on Scots losses was , in part at least, due to a couple of causes. There were two divisions of New Army, raised in Scotland and fighting for the first time, at Loos. For a small country like this that was a disproportionately large contribution. It would be seen again at Arras in 1917. The battle of Loos losses led to units retaining a cadre for reforming after a battle. Because it was not the practice at the time, some units were practically wiped out and had to ' start again'. This was not confined to Scots regiments but it was the Highland and Lowland divisions which foreshadowed the downside of ' Pals' battalions, as seen on the Somme in 1916, terrible losses confined to localised areas. In Dundee, Loos held the place of the Somme in many other parts of the country because of the losses suffered by five battalions Black Watch which was the regiment of choice for local men.

You are not wrong and no praise would be too high for the men who fought at Loos, whatever their origins.

[AB64]

Interested to read this, as today is the 90th Anniversary of my Great Uncles death at Loos with the HLI - I am just about to go to the War memorial where he is commemorated and place a cross - I will also place one on my Grandfathers grave as Dan has no known grave so it seems the most appropriate. I will be posting a remmebred today bit when I get back.

Alistair

[truthergw]

My reference to Dundee's connection to Loos is amplified in a very sad thread this week in the Soldiers forum. Alfred Anderson's Funeral. Not the least of Mr Anderson's many claims to fame was that he was the last Scottish survivor of the battle.

[MParnham]

I read somewhere that this battle (or perhaps some aspect of it) might have had some of the most asymmetric battle casualties ever recorded, I can’t remember the exact figures quoted but I seem to think the authors claimed there were some 8000 British casualties (including one of my own family members) and single figure German casualties! Could this possibly be correct?

Martin

[Guest Evans of the Broke]

I read somewhere that this battle (or perhaps some aspect of it) might have had some of the most asymmetric battle casualties ever recorded, I can’t remember the exact figures quoted but I seem to think the authors claimed there were some 8000 British casualties (including one of my own family members) and single figure German casualties! Could this possibly be correct?

Martin

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There were actually only:

7,766 men died from 25 September to 19 October. Many of new army units, rushed into a battle area for the first time only a matter of days after landing in France, were devastated.

[Chris_Baker]

Read the sobering casualty statistics towards the foot of this page: http://www.1914-1918.net/BATTLES/bat13_loos/bat.htm

[Guest Evans of the Broke]

Read the sobering casualty statistics towards the foot of this page: http://www.1914-1918.net/BATTLES/bat13_loos/bat.htm

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Do you know Chris i was gonna exactly do that but i forgot. I also turned the 16th into a 19th.

Rockin' wit the site owner

[Barnsey]

Arm - Just a suggestion, make the link to your site a little bigger in your signature.  Honestly I look at most everyones sites, and until now I never noticed yours.  Just my two cents.... Andy

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Arm

Good site

Perhaps, if you can, more contrast between text & background on your site. I'm a little colour-blind & had a bit of a time reading it. Good content. I try to soak up as much info about 21st/24th and especially the Battle of Loos.

[Barnsey]

I'm delighted that so many folk here are pursuing aspects of Loos, and in particular the role of the Buffs - 650 of their names are listed at Dud Corner.

I believe that this horrendous action has not received the attention from the great British public that it deserves - overshadowed in general perceptions, obviously, by Somme and Salient.

And specifically, any commemoration of Loos seems to be focussed on the tremendous involvement of the Scots. No problem at all with that, but I have long felt (pace Paul Reed) that the sacrifices of 21 Div and 24 Div merit greater awareness than they have received.

Tell me I'm wrong.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Never words more truly spoken. Sadly these days if I ask one of my peers (shall we say the under 35s) about the Great War, the first word out is Gallipoli (I do live in the colonies!). When asking peers in the UK its "The Somme" almost every time. Whilst I would never wish to down-play the sacrifice & effort of all personnel in the Great War, I think that there are many stories that need to be told with a louder voice.

As is known by some, my G-Gfather was killed at Loos. I think that a little more public recognition would not go astray (not just The Buffs either, the 24th, 21st & Guards Divisions), so thay many soldiers lying under the fields there can know that their efforts are still appreciated.

(Sounds a little pompous? Sorry if it does, but I feel better for getting it off my chest.)

[DaveBrigg]

Couldn't agree more. I guess the soldiers who died had no say in what type of 'show' they took part in. Looking at the casualty figures for Loos, in comparison with modern day conflicts, puts things into perspective. For the casualty I am researching, Loos was the first major set piece assault. It seems worse when you consider that they didn't really know what they were letting themselves in for.

[Max]

I think that a little more public recognition would not go astray (not just The Buffs either, the 24th, 21st & Guards Divisions),

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Everybody seems to forget the 28th Div.

Sufficed to say, every Corps in both the main and subsidiary attacks suffered very severe casualties and it is pleasing that after all these years the title "the forgotten battle" may now be at the point of being discarded.

Andy

[Barnsey]

Everybody seems to forget the 28th Div. 

Andy

I was only mentioning the 12st, 24th & Guards by virtue of the fact that they had been "in-country" for a very short time and that Loos was the first time they had been in an active trench.

This was not meant to forget or belittle the efforts of all the divisions (inc. 28th) that had already been tested under fire.

[armourersergeant]

Arm

Good site

Perhaps, if you can, more contrast between text & background on your site. I'm a little colour-blind & had a bit of a time reading it. Good content. I try to soak up as much info about 21st/24th and especially the Battle of Loos.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Barnsey,

thanks for your comments.

I have often thought about the contrast aspect, but being able to read it myself, assumed that others would also with ease!! I tried many colours as background and this was the one that struck me as best. I will fiddle again and see what I can come up with, if anything.

I will do some more writing on 21st at Loos soon, he says not convicently, and post it. I am researching the reserve corps at Loos as a project for my next WFA talk. It is an area that fascinates me, not just the soldiers that fought but the commanders at command and staff level and how they performed and under performed as it were.

regards

Arm

Ps To all, any info of the reserve corps you have that I could have and use would be gratefully received.

[n cherry]

This post relates to the commrnt by Pat Barnes as follows:

This was not meant to forget or belittle the efforts of all the divisions (inc. 28th) that had already been tested under fire.

Whilst not claiming to be an expert on the 28th Division I seem to recall at Ypres prior to coming down to Loos the Division suffered over 13,000 casualties, which is I reckon more than the entire strength of the Division. Does anyone have any info on how many replacements were sent to the 28th after Ypres..???????

[truthergw]

Barnsey,

thanks for your comments.

I have often thought about the contrast aspect, but being able to read it myself, assumed that others would also with ease!! I tried many colours as background and this was the one that struck me as best. I will fiddle again and see what I can come up with, if anything.

Arm

Ps To all, any info of the reserve corps you have that I could have and use would be gratefully received.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Went to the site and thought it was very good. Like General Macarthur, I shall return. I didn't have any problem reading it so I went back to have another look after seeing this post . I think the problem may be red on green. This a common type of colour blindness, the inability to distinguish these colours.

[Barnsey]

Went to the site and thought it was very good. Like General Macarthur, I shall return. I didn't have any problem reading it so I went back to have another look after seeing this post . I think the problem may be red on green. This a common type of colour blindness, the inability to distinguish these colours.

Spot on. Only about 75% of the male population are colourblind to some degree. Only about 1 in 2 two million c-b people are female!

[David_Blanchard]

I did a little bit of work a while back on a man killed at Loos in the Buffs:

See the URL below if interested.

Regards

DavidClick Here

[Nathan Greenfield]

Pals:

At the risk of being accused of giving a plug for a friend, anyone interested in Loos could do no better than Nick Lloyd's new book, Loos, published by Tempus.

Cheers,

Nathan