Broznitsky Posted 17 August , 2003 Share Posted 17 August , 2003 I wonder if we could assemble the vast research might of the Baker Pals and list the first battle casualty of each Army in WW1. That is, who was the first British (Canadian, French, German, Australian, American, etc) soldier killed in action, and what do we know about him and how he died? Should be an interesting list . . . Peter in Vancouver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 17 August , 2003 Share Posted 17 August , 2003 the first casualty for each country was Truth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AOK4 Posted 17 August , 2003 Share Posted 17 August , 2003 Hello, first german war dead on the Western Front: 2 August 10 hrs Lt. Albert Mayer (Jäger-Regiment zu Pferde 5) as the first German officer near Delle. In the area Mülheim-Badenweiler, Sergeant Peugeot was killed as the first French soldier, in 1929 a monument was built in his honour near Jonchery. On the Eastern Front, a Patrol of Jäger-Regiment zu Pferde 11 was ambushed in Staro Koshepice in the morning of 2 August. Paul Grun was killed during this engagement. Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 17 August , 2003 Share Posted 17 August , 2003 "Courage Remembered" quotes the following First British naval casualties Stokers 1st Class J.Foster & A.Martin and Ldg Stoker H.Copland Died 06.08.14 at 06.30 when HMS Amphion was sunk by a mine. First British land forces Pte Bai - Gold Coast Regt Died 15.08.14 at Agbeluvoe, Togo First British officer Lt George Masterman Thompson 1 Bn, Royal Scots & Gold Coast Regt on 22.08.14 in Togo First British on Western Front Pte J.Parr 4 Bn, Middlesex Regt on 21.08.14 & buried St Symphorien Military Cemetery, Belgium Of course, these are battle casualties - many other soldiers/sailors died on 04.08.14 and subsequent days of illness or accident and thereby qualify as war casualties under CWGC rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stu Posted 17 August , 2003 Share Posted 17 August , 2003 As a point of interest,I had a great uncle who died 8/8/14, Pte 9836 Ernest Poulton. 1st Coldstream Gds. He is burried in Aldershot Military Cemetery. Oddly enough he is on CWGC site,the family have always assumed he may have died in an accident whilst the battalion was preparing to mobilise. I would be grateful if any member who has access to the guards records can tell me about it,unfortunatly the war diary tells me nothing as it only started on 13/8/14. Stu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 17 August , 2003 Share Posted 17 August , 2003 Stu All deaths in a Commonwealth armed force from 04.08.14 to 31.08.21 inclusive qualify as war deaths and are granted war grave status. Death could be by any cause whatsoever - killed in action, died of wounds, illness, accident, homicide, suicide or judicial execution. The death could have had no connection with the war at all but they all count. That is why your relative has war grave status and is in the CWGC list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stu Posted 17 August , 2003 Share Posted 17 August , 2003 Terry, Thanks for that,thats obviously why he's on CWGC. Do you think the Guards Museum can help with records etc as I understand they hold some,I tried the PRO with no success. Stu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 17 August , 2003 Share Posted 17 August , 2003 I have never researched a guardsman but you can do no worse than ask. I am sure a more knowlegeable Pal will provide you with a definitive view on the records they hold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broznitsky Posted 18 August , 2003 Author Share Posted 18 August , 2003 Fascinating already. Terry, can you give a brief summary of the action in Togo, who was involved, etc. I know where Togo is, just never knew of any military happenings there . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted 18 August , 2003 Share Posted 18 August , 2003 I believe Australia's first battle casualty was incurred when the Naval & Military force was occupying German possessions in the Pacific. Captain Pockley was killed in a fight along with a few other naval & military men in this short campaign in August/Sept 1914. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Hone Posted 18 August , 2003 Share Posted 18 August , 2003 Just to amplify Terry's response, The regiments of the Household Division (which includes the Guards) hold the service records of former soldiers and certainly a few years ago were happy to send me copies of those of the former pupils of our school that I was researching. As I recall it was necessary to write to the individual regiment. I don't think that they asked for a donation, but I included one out of courtesy. Re: HMS Amphion, for some reason I thought the death toll was higher (ironically did it not include some German POWS, the crew of the ship the Amphion had just captured in the act of minelaying?) A couple of the CWGC Register entries for the 3 sailors mentioned by Terry record '1 of 4'. Who was the fourth man, or is he an unknown? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 18 August , 2003 Share Posted 18 August , 2003 The first battle deaths in the US Army were Cpl.J.B.Gresham (shot through the eye), Pte.M.D.Hay (shot through the head) and Pte.T.F.Enright (allegedly murdered after surrendering by having his throat cut plus 12 bayonet wounds) of F Coy, 16th Infantry Regiment. They died on November 2nd/3rd 1917. This is a photo of their grave.... Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 18 August , 2003 Share Posted 18 August , 2003 ...The inscription reads (in French)... Here lie the first soldiers of the Great Republic of the United States of America, fallen on French soil for justice and liberty. November 3rd 1917. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordac Posted 18 August , 2003 Share Posted 18 August , 2003 Hi Peter: The first Canadians KIA were with the PPCLI: L/Cpl. N. Fry (252) and L/Cpl. Henry George Bellinger (1264) KIA 08-JAN-15. N. Fry is remembered on the Menin Gate Memorial and Henry Bellinger is buried at Voormezeele Enclosure No. 3. The PPCLI was the first Canadian battalion to land in France on December 21, 1914 and they replaced the French 53rd Regiment in the line on January 6, 1915 east of Vierstraat. At the time the PPCLI were part of the English 80th Brigade. Garth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordac Posted 18 August , 2003 Share Posted 18 August , 2003 Hi Peter: Sorry, I should have mentioned the first Canadian officer killed was the PPCLI's Cpt. Denzel Onslow Cochrane Newton MVO, KIA 09-JAN-15. Cpt. Newton is buried at the Dickebusch Old Military Cemetery. Here's what the PPCLI's official history has to say about his death: "Captain D. O. C. Newton, losing his way in the darkness, walked through the lines between two outposts and found himself in No Man's Land, going towards the German trenches. Turning back he was challenged by his own men, but apparently failed to hear. Warnings had been given that Germans were attempting to get into and behind the line; and the sentry on duty, getting no reply to his challenge, fired, only to recognize his officer's voice as he fell. The sentry at once climbed over the parapet and dragged Captain Newton into safety, but found that his own shot had been fatal." A footnote reads: A fellow-officer writes: "The gallant and mortally wounded officer's last effort at speaking was to let it be known that he should not have been where he was and that the sentry only did his duty." Garth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 18 August , 2003 Share Posted 18 August , 2003 Broznitsky Very briefly.... Togo was a German colony in 1914 - one of four in Africa - Togo (or Togoland), Cameroun, German South West Africa (Namibia) and German East Africa (Tanzania but not Zanzibar). British forces began their conquest of Togo on 07.08.14 when a detachment of the Gold Coast Regt landed at Lomé (now the capital of Togo). French forces also attacked from the north. There was heavy fighting at Agbeluvoe on 15-16 August and at Khra (Chra) on 22-23 August. The German forces surrendered on 26.08.14 at Amuchu near Kamina. Togo became a French possession in 1922 although the UK was mandated to control part of the territory for a period. Lt Thompson was temporarily commanding French troops at his death and was awarded the Croix de Guerre with Palms by the French. He is buried in Wahala Cemetery (formerly Chra Village Cemetery) and has the only Commonwealth war grave in Togo from either WW1 or WW2. The British African casualties are recorded on the Kumasi Memorial (amongst others from later fighting elsewhere) in Ghana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Posted 18 August , 2003 Share Posted 18 August , 2003 As a point of interest, i had a great Uncle who died 8/8/14, Pte 9836 Ernest Poulton, 1st Coldstream Gds. He is Burried in Aldershot Military Cemetery. Oddly enough he is on CWGC site,the family have always assumed he may have died in an accident whilst the battalion was preparing to mobilise. Stu Stu, i had this same problem when researching an ASC man in the same cemetery. What i suggest you do is apply for a Death Certificate from the Family Records Centre. This will give you the cause of death and so my give you a clue as to how he died. There is a fee for this however. try this link Good luck Ski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 18 August , 2003 Share Posted 18 August , 2003 Mark You are right. There were four 'Joint First casualties of the 1914-18 War' according to CWGC. "Courage Remembered" seems to omit the fourth. He was... Stoker 2nd Class W.Dick. HMS Amphion had sunk the Konigen Luise the previous day while she (the KL) was minelaying. Then struck one of the mines herself on the following day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 18 August , 2003 Share Posted 18 August , 2003 The first Australian mentioned above by Andrew was Capt B.C.A.Pockley - Australian Army Medical Corps. Died 11.09.14 during the capture of German New Guinea. He is now buried in Rabaul (Bita Pika) War Cemetery, Papua New Guinea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drummy Posted 18 August , 2003 Share Posted 18 August , 2003 In response to Garth's interesting post regarding the first Canadian Officer and other ranks to die on active service, all three of them were actually Englishmen who had emmigrated to Canada. Most of the PPCLI were British born (the majority all ex service men) in the early part of the war. I have always been interested to know just how many of the CEF, AIF & NZEF were actually british born. I would suggest that in the first couple of years of the war, a good majority were but I guess it would be impossible to confirm. Many thanks Neil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordac Posted 18 August , 2003 Share Posted 18 August , 2003 I have always been interested to know just how many of the CEF, AIF & NZEF were actually british born. I would suggest that in the first couple of years of the war, a good majority were but I guess it would be impossible to confirm. Hi Neil: I posted these statistics a couple of months ago. Here's the breakdown in the enlistment numbers for the CEF by country of birth: Canada: 1914 - 10,880 (30%) 1914-1919 - 318,705 (52%) UK: 1914 - 23,211 (64%) 1914-1919 - 228,174 (36%) Other: 1914 - 2,176 (6%) 1914-1919 - 72,757(12%) Garth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drummy Posted 19 August , 2003 Share Posted 19 August , 2003 Garth, Fascinating info, I did not expect that many of the CEF to have been british born. Thanks for the interesting post, cheers Neil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Posted 19 August , 2003 Share Posted 19 August , 2003 Neil, Canada in 1914 was very much a nation of immigrants. It has been said that for the first contingent, the high percentage of British-born soldiers was explained by the fact that the authorities were looking for men with military experience. I know that of the thirty or so groups in my collection to 1st Division men, most were British born, and nearly all had previous military experience in the British army. Oddly, the vast majority of the officers were Canadian born. As an aside, Canada produced nearly 200 aces in 1914-18 and virtually all of them were Canadian born. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul guthrie Posted 19 August , 2003 Share Posted 19 August , 2003 Dave I think the plaque about the three US saying they were the first to die is still there and all three were repatriated for burial here. One was a Kentucky man, Gresham I think but not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 20 August , 2003 Share Posted 20 August , 2003 Paul. According to my records, Gresham was from Evansville, Indiana/ Hay was from Glidden, Iowa./ and Enright was from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. I'm 90% certain that this is correct, but there may be an error (the info is from a casualty details roll made in the '20s). Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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