Ukrainian Independence 1918 - 1919

[Canadawwi]

Thought I'd add this to our collection of information about various fronts of war.

The Ukrainian people fought for independence in 1918. I've attached two photos of the 11th Sichovi Striltsi (Riflemen) when at Shepetivka in 1919.

They are shown with their famous commander Col. Evhen Konovalets (picture at schoolhouse). They were part of the UGA (Ukrainian Galician Army).

[themonsstar]

Hi Canadawwi

Cheers for the photos. My one was with the 14 Galician Div in WW2. Pos MG Officer. I have two photo albums but can not show photos because of unit history.

[Bruce Dennis]

Hi Canadawwi

...but can not show photos because of unit history.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I hope you don't mind me asking, and pardon my ignorance, but what does that mean?

Regards,

Bruce

[Canadawwi]

As far as WW2 - the unit mentioned has been wrongly defamed. However, you are right not to post it, not because of anything to hide, more because it attracts too much debate.

For more information:

Background

Issues

Analysis

In addition, for a complete online edition (free) of the History of Ukraine during WW2 - view - here.

[Bruce Dennis]

As far as WW2 - the unit mentioned has been wrongly defamed.  However, you are right not to post it, not because of anything to hide, more because it attracts too much debate.

For more information:

Background

Issues

Analysis

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I understand. But unless the photos themselves contain something provocative, I think lonks ensure that the subject is already out in the open.

Natuaraly I am sure most Pals would be able to view the pictures as historical artifacts, but it must be your choice.

All the best,

Bruce

Bruce

[Canadawwi]

This is an interesting picture from my trip this summer. This type of plaque paying tribute to the men of the 1918 era would not have been allowed during the Soviet era, when support of any independence initiatives was punishable by hard labour / interrogations, etc. This plaque is in downtown Lviv.

The main inscription reads:

"In memory and honour of the soldiers of the Ukrainian armies and military formations of the 19th and 20th centuries who fought for an independent Ukraine."

I just noticed that along the bottom it says that the plaque was placed by the organization of Ukrainian war veterans in Great Britain.

[Guest Benoit Douville]

That's a very interesting picture indeed, I hope to visit Lviv someday, there is so much history there.

About the Independance Ukraine War, it was the Polish-Ukrainian War of 1918-19 when the Poles won the territory of Eastern Galicia for 25 years.

About the 14 SS Galicia Division involvement in World War II, I know that there is still a lot of debate about the Waffen-SS Volunteers... They were soldiers fighting against the Bolshevism regime, they were fighting for a cause.

Regards

[bob lembke]

Hi, Guys;

Just noticed this thread.

As a Non-Ukranian, and non-specialist in anything after the mid-1920's, let me observe, without going into a lot of inappropriate detail, that these issues probably will not be sorted out for another hundred years. Even in WW I, INHO, it is only in the last 20 years that a lot of WW I is being properly sorted out, despite the non-controversial nature of the events of the period. In my specific area of interest, German flame thrower troops of WW I, the history is still badly distorted by the efforts of an American and an English general, who both worked actively and successfully for about 20 years to obscure and distort the history in this area.

About 20 years ago I was persuaded to attend a lunch-time center-city demonstration for Ukranian independence from the Big Bear (I must say that my principal motivation was the influence of a principal organizer, a lovely lady who worked part-time as a model), and when I returned to work I was subjected to abuse from a co-worker. Nothing is said in the US about the Terror Famine, when a specifically and sharply ethnically-focused genocide killed 6-7 million Ukranians in a year, and when an excellent documentary film was made about the Terror Famine, based on the research of Professor Conquest, an active campaign was launched to keep it off TV, which was almost entirely successful. IMHO an understanding of the Terror Famine is neccessary for any understanding of the regrettable events of the following decade.

I don't want to go any further with this topic; I for one avoid the study of the WW II period, and thank G-d every night for my interest being in the 1910 to 1925 period. I think that the best thing that one could do at this time is to preserve and perhaps protect existing primary source materials from the era until, some time in the distant future, the period can be at least somewhat objectively studied.

Bob Lembke

[Canadawwi]

A beautiful low budget movie was made a few years ago in Ukraine in black and white showing the story of the famine. I am also interested in cinematography, and there is one scene in particular that is notable. Bodies dropping off the wagons are pushed off and rolled into a large burial pit. Logs are pushed down after the bodies. The repetition and rhythm of the bodies moving into the pit combined with the bleak landscape was a startling minimalist scene. Or another scene where a boy in a sheepskin coat is unable to rouse his mother and grandmother. He goes outside and stands in a stark snowcovered plain, screaming into the wind - "Mother, Mother". A wagon rolls by loaded with corpses. The drivers see the boy and stop. They say nothing but slowly break off a crust of bread and hand it to him. He stands there holding the bread as they pull away.

These photos from the Ukrainian Central Photo Archive reveal just some of the horror - Artificial Famine 1930s

The study of Ukraine during the first World War years is a fascinating story. The 1918 era songs continue to this very day to be an important part of the national identity. Those army songs are still sung as national patriotic songs.

Pictures:

#1 - March for Ukrainian Independence, circa 1918.

[Canadawwi]

#1 - Uniforms circa 1914

[Canadawwi]

This interesting item is from the Canadian War diaries for the Siberian Expeditionary Force. It mentions the presence of Ukrainian nationalists led by Hetman Pavlo Skoropadsky.

[Canadawwi]

#1 - Photo of Skoropadsky, mentioned in the above Canadian war diary.

#2 - One of the Ukrainian students (Volodymyr Hrebeniak, student of archaeology & anthropology, 1892-1915) killed in the cause of Ukrainian independence. The post card was sold in 1915 to raise funds for his war memorial. A cross on the site of the battle was unveiled only last year. There is no internet database or war memorial listing Ukraine's war dead, and their places of burial.

[Broznitsky]

Thanks Bob and Marika for bringing this topic up, and also Thanks to Marika for the interesting images.

Peter in British Columbia

[duckman]

This area is largely a blank for me, but I saw a remark not so long ago to the effect that the "revolutionary" currency bought in by the new government was nicknamed "Skoropadets", as this means "quickly falling"

The only Ukranian I know could not confirm either part with any certainty.

Can anyone confirm?

[Canadawwi]

I never heard of that before. Thanks for bringing it up.

I can confirm that "skoropadets" does mean quickly falling.

skoro = fast/quickly

padets = falling