CROONAERT Posted 27 November , 2005 Share Posted 27 November , 2005 walter tull new to me as well<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Try a "search" on this forum. Walter Tull has featured in several threads in the past. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Robertson Posted 27 November , 2005 Share Posted 27 November , 2005 Very good again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spike10764 Posted 27 November , 2005 Share Posted 27 November , 2005 I was very impressed by the programme and Hislop- this is a subject that appears close to his heart. As I missed the first prog this was my intro to the series and thanks to Mr Hislop, for taking the time to make it. The story related of the ex miner with TB offering his gasmask to another in an attack"as yours is gone and my lungs are shot anyway", William Fisher I think his name was, if that is true, what a hero and quite the revolutionary socialist so it seemed.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KateJ Posted 27 November , 2005 Share Posted 27 November , 2005 I really enjoyed the episode tonight. I think Hislop is a very good presenter for this series. He doesn't have the "in your face" approach that some other presenters of historical programmes seem to adopt. Kate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen White Posted 27 November , 2005 Share Posted 27 November , 2005 Very good, thoroughly enjoyed it. I too learnt something today, with the piece on Walter Tull. Then there was William Fisher, as Spike says, what a hero. If the next two programmes in the series prove to be as good. Then as far as channel 4 are concerned, it will have been money well spent. Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marina Posted 27 November , 2005 Share Posted 27 November , 2005 It was all good tonight - a mix of backgrounds - all herat rending and interesting. And Hislop doesn't see this as a chance to show off like some interviewers - he's very much just letting us see. Marina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludovica Posted 27 November , 2005 Share Posted 27 November , 2005 I was very impressed by the programme and Hislop- this is a subject that appears close to his heart. As I missed the first prog this was my intro to the series and thanks to Mr Hislop, for taking the time to make it. The story related of the ex miner with TB offering his gasmask to another in an attack"as yours is gone and my lungs are shot anyway", William Fisher I think his name was, if that is true, what a hero and quite the revolutionary socialist so it seemed.... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Indeed! What a hero, getting up and doing his bit in every crisis for the good of others, and putting others before himself. Mr Hislop's programme is fast becoming a firm favourite of mine and I hope a second series will get commissioned swiftly. There are so many great stories yet to be told Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PAJORO Posted 28 November , 2005 Share Posted 28 November , 2005 Indeed! What a hero, getting up and doing his bit in every crisis for the good of others, and putting others before himself. Mr Hislop's programme is fast becoming a firm favourite of mine and I hope a second series will get commissioned swiftly. There are so many great stories yet to be told <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Damn missed it again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveBrigg Posted 28 November , 2005 Share Posted 28 November , 2005 My disapproving 14 year said "They must all be chavs in Hull" <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Very astute Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick H Posted 28 November , 2005 Share Posted 28 November , 2005 Thoroughly enjoyed the programme having missed the first one. The theme of this programme was obviously the way in which the war changed the class status of our society and I thought there was a good mix of "names" and their stories. Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinglma Posted 28 November , 2005 Share Posted 28 November , 2005 Walter Tull's name on Bay 7 of the Arras Memorial. I hasten to add that I was not responsible for colouring it in! I believe his name is also recorded on a war memorial at White Hart Lane, though sadly he left that club following racist abuse from elements of the crowd. Also there was good exhibition concerning Walter Tull at that Family Record Centre a few months ago. I'll scan the accompanying leaflet if anyone is interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Miller Posted 28 November , 2005 Share Posted 28 November , 2005 Another immensely enjoyable and interesting programme - a mix of stories heard before and those completely new, but all put together well, and well worth hearing. I just come into the category of having come across Walter Tull, but only recently - a couple of months ago, BBC4 ran a documentary about the history of black footballers in Britain, and Walter featured heavily then, and that was the first I'd heard of him. Any of us who have tried researching names from a memorial know how trying the exercise can be, and it is a little frustrating to watch a programme where every chosen name has such a great story, and descendants apparently come out of the woodwork! But this programme is all about these marvellous stories, and it would be silly to waste time and money showing deadends. We are to enjoy, but know in the back of our minds that it isn't this easy in the real world. I must admit that I would really like to know how you can trace descendants from a soldiers' name. Has any Pal had success in that direction? Census exploration, as far as the very little I know seems geared to going up generations previous to the soldier in question, rather than coming down generations to the present day. There might have been a quick explanation in programme one, but I was excitedly pointing out something coincidental to my own studies to my Mum, and bingo! I'd missed it, as you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbo Posted 28 November , 2005 Share Posted 28 November , 2005 For people who missed Not Forgotten {or want to see it again) & have Freeview, Sky or Cable, More 4 has a repeat scheduled for 5:10pm on Saturday. I don't know if it's the first or the second episode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludovica Posted 28 November , 2005 Share Posted 28 November , 2005 Another immensely enjoyable and interesting programme - a mix of stories heard before and those completely new, but all put together well, and well worth hearing. I just come into the category of having come across Walter Tull, but only recently - a couple of months ago, BBC4 ran a documentary about the history of black footballers in Britain, and Walter featured heavily then, and that was the first I'd heard of him. Any of us who have tried researching names from a memorial know how trying the exercise can be, and it is a little frustrating to watch a programme where every chosen name has such a great story, and descendants apparently come out of the woodwork! But this programme is all about these marvellous stories, and it would be silly to waste time and money showing deadends. We are to enjoy, but know in the back of our minds that it isn't this easy in the real world. I must admit that I would really like to know how you can trace descendants from a soldiers' name. Has any Pal had success in that direction? Census exploration, as far as the very little I know seems geared to going up generations previous to the soldier in question, rather than coming down generations to the present day. There might have been a quick explanation in programme one, but I was excitedly pointing out something coincidental to my own studies to my Mum, and bingo! I'd missed it, as you do. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> There's no real mystery about it. C4 obviously have the resources to place adverts and letters in relevant local newspapers, and researchers to search through birth marriage and death records, censuses and other archive material. Archives of newspapers, local government, electoral rolls and phone books also turn up a lot of stuff. It appears they have also made use of material already collected by interested relatives, which may have appeared as articles in books, local papers or parish magazines. ... and thats before even mentioning the internet... Censuses give you not only the parents of a person of course, but also siblings... then you look for subsequent marriages.. and children and so on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swizz Posted 28 November , 2005 Share Posted 28 November , 2005 I have enjoyed both of the first two programmes in this series. I agree that Ian Hislop is a good presenter - when he's talking to relatives and historians he tends to stand back and let them speak, which I think is a good approach for this subject. I also think that taking the memorials as a starting point is a novel approach to looking at the First World War - it gives the individual stories a context, while at the same time the stories about particular soldiers make the memorials - the only physical evidence left of the war in most places - more relevant. A worthwhile series indeed. Swizz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desmond7 Posted 28 November , 2005 Author Share Posted 28 November , 2005 Re tracing descendants - dunno about England etc. but I am amazed at how many families/direct descendants still live in the same streets/areas/houses! Des Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate Wills Posted 28 November , 2005 Share Posted 28 November , 2005 I must admit that I would really like to know how you can trace descendants from a soldiers' name. Has any Pal had success in that direction? Yes, in connection with one of the King's College Chapel Choristers. Admittedly this works best on unusual names, in this case Ernest Beart of the 5th Norfolks. I looked in the phone directory for Bearts, sent off a few letters, and bingo! a message on the answerphone in broad Norfolk to "get in touch with my cousin John", who was a real gent and sent me photos of Ernest and much new information. Sadly, John has since died, but shortly afterwards his neice got in touch to say she was continuing the family research. To cut a long story short, she has since joined this Forum, and we ventured to Gallipoli together (where Ernest fell) earlier this year. Pity it did not work for Walter Hahn - back to the drawing board. By the way, I think the major drawback of the recent genealogy series on BBC2 was the impression given that you would come up trumps almost every time; and not only that, but the County Archivist would greet you at the station and escort you to a horde of goodies at the CRO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted 28 November , 2005 Share Posted 28 November , 2005 I thought Hislop exaggerated the resentment of new 'middle class' officers by long-standing upper class residents of the messes. I am pretty sure that this was restricted to posh regiments while more plebian outfits like most of the London regiments would have been far more democratic. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dycer Posted 28 November , 2005 Share Posted 28 November , 2005 To be honest I found last night's Programme a bit disappointing but I'll put this down to the Power of the Forum,School History Studies and accident of birth. Power of the Forum-As has already been said the Forum has discussed Walter Tull previously so I did not learn anything new. School History-Having studied the formation of the Labour Party and the 1926 Miners/General Strike.The Welsh Miner's comments do not come as a surprise nor did the demise of the Aristocracy. Accident of Birth- I have my Uncles' Medals.Need I say more. As a Programme-It would be interesting to see the viewing figures.It is apparent that the wider populace do not understand the realitiies and effects of War.This was revealed when the Headmaster admitted he did not know what photographic sources he had within the School.I could argue, with the benefit of hindsight, that when the School Memorial was erected , group photographs of "old boys" could have been placed alongside as a warning to future generations.Possibly this will be re-addressed by the School. I wonder how the "casualty" would have viewed his "studded" descendant I would not want Television Programmes to allow us to wallow in the past and on reflection I should have opted for "Rocket Man" last night.(You'll have to catch me first to light the blue touch paper ) George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Cooper Posted 28 November , 2005 Share Posted 28 November , 2005 My disapproving 14 year said "They must all be chavs in Hull" Very astute Trust someone from The Wrong Side of the Humber to say that! Mind you, it does seem that most of us Hull-born types try to escape as quickly as possible...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desmond7 Posted 28 November , 2005 Author Share Posted 28 November , 2005 Theme of the programme is obviously meant to be the aspects of remembering in Britain (or the British Isles if you want). I live in hope that he will now get to Ireland (don't care which part!) and Scotland. However, I do fear that this will be 95% English all the way (with apologies to Welsh fraternity). Yeah, I've booked the operation for the chip on my shoulder via BUPA!! Just a comment. des Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dycer Posted 28 November , 2005 Share Posted 28 November , 2005 Des, In fairness to Hislop he did start at his Grandfather's "Home" Memorial which was in Scotland(I appreciate his Grandfather did survive the War). You raise an interesting point about Ireland,probably more so than Scotland. You will have probably read my observations above about the yesterday's Programme.I can only speculate, if Ireland is overlooked could this be because of the Home Rule issues. I agree that for equality all parts of GB and Ireland should be included.Should it have been extended to the Commonwealth and France,Germany,etc.I am sure the same messages would have been received in all these Countries. I suppose the old adage applies.The Editor's decision is final. George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desmond7 Posted 28 November , 2005 Author Share Posted 28 November , 2005 Dycer - take your point ... BUT what better opportunity will there ever be for someone to point out the changing nature of things with more people from 'the south' championing the cause of what Terence Denman rightfully called 'Ireland's Forgotten Soldiers' ... and also to examine the highly traumatic effect WW1 had on the pro-union population in 'the north'. I reckon a potion of the prog. based on the Irish (as a whole) memorial 'mindset' would be well worth seeing. Cheers But you've probably hit the nail on the head with the 'Home Rule Avoidance' theory! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 28 November , 2005 Share Posted 28 November , 2005 I thought Hislop exaggerated the resentment of new 'middle class' officers by long-standing upper class residents of the messes. I am pretty sure that this was restricted to posh regiments while more plebian outfits like most of the London regiments would have been far more democratic. Ron <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Good point, that - and in this case, particularly apt; the way they skipped over the cooments by Lieutenant William Slim of the Royal Warwicks. As Field Marshal Viscount Slim, probably the best example of the way the middle classes were accepted into the army in the Great War. A fromer office clerk making it to a FMs baton indeed! BTW, as a subscriber to private Eye (and me a Tory ), as the Sunday Times (or telegraph) said - 'beneath every satirist is a serious histroian trtying to get out'. Well done, Hislop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Maloney Posted 28 November , 2005 Share Posted 28 November , 2005 Hello, As regards the questions about how the series was put together, I can answer one or two, having been employed by Nick Barratt back in May, to do some research for this series. A group of us were set the task in the Family Records Centre, of finding out if there were any direct descendents of people listed on a database taken from war memorials, information on some as regards significance, also provided. Our job was to work forwards in time, using marriage & birth indicees, obtaining certificates as proof, though other indicators, such as Debretts helped. What mattered to the TV company (the same one responsible for 'Who Do You Think You Are') was results, NOW. When we had found a descendent, we'd report back to Nick and the information would be passed on to someone else. This only lasted a few days, but was very hectic. Oddly enough, one of my 'names' was Walter Tull, which is why I had an eerie sense of recognition when the Rev. Finlayson appeared on screen on sunday night. This is my first posting on this website, and I look forward to contributing more. With luck, I'll have a few things to say about Walter Tull and the search for his descendents tomorrow. I can also assure you that the experience didn't turn me into a heartless brute. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now