New Army Issue Tunic?

[Terry Carter]

The Original Birmingham Pals were issued with a Navy Blue uniform in December 1914.

The following is on eBay what does Forum experts think of this tunic?

Ebay item

Regards

Terry

[Graham Stewart]

Terry,

A nice and probably the only "Kitchener Blue" tunic that I've ever seen, and of the thousands upon thousands that were issued to units of the New Armies how many have survived? I think once khaki colthing began to be issued in greater quantities the fate of these tunics was sealed and I bet a lot were burnt as there would be no further use for them.

Now the thing that sealed it for me as being a "correct" item as opposed to a made up one was the tailors mark. Where you find Gaunt on a lot of Regular Army accoutrements, Hobsons could be found on a lot of Militia/Rifle Volunteer equipment. So it would appear that a lot of "blues" were probably drawn from store's and other sources and issued to men of the New Armies.

Graham.

[CROONAERT]

I think once khaki colthing began to be issued in greater quantities the fate of thses tunics was sealed and I bet a lot were burnt as there would be no further use for them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A great many were sent, via the International Red Cross, to Germany to clothe British POW's.

Dave.

[Chief_Chum]

Hi Terry/Graham/Dave,

Much as I would love a real one I'm not too sure...

The problem was the lack of khaki dye not the material so, having dyed the serge dark blue it would have been made up into tunics. That being the case, it doesn't explain why the internal pockets have also been dyed; surely they would have been white calico just like the khaki SD tunics?

Kitchener Blue Service Dress seems to have arrived quite late; 11th (Service) Btn Suffolk Regiment were issued with it although the 9th had the earlier 'postman' style suits. I have some close-up photographs of a soldier of 11/Suffolk which clearly show the rifle patches above the top pockets which are missing on the ebay tunic. The lined collar and loop for hanging it up are odd too.

Just be wary that it isn't one of the many tunics which were sold off a few years ago by Angels the costumiers which had, at some point in the past, been dyed black to make it look like an old policeman's tunic or something similar for a film job!

Cheers,

Taff

[Graham Stewart]

Taff,

I can see where you coming from, but I'm still under the impression that the lack of khaki was wool problem and not dye, hence the Volunteer Training Corps having uniforms made from various types of material with the grey-green finish.

Certainly a number of Locally Raised battalions overcame the problem with some innovation of their own. Both the 16th & 18th(Service)Bn's,Northumberland Fusiliers obtained a blueish-grey uniform from Messr's Bainbridge and Co. of Newcastle and I believe one Welsh unit had homespun cloth in brown.

I've downloaded it anyway for a closer look, but without getting my hands on it, it's difficult to say, although you reckon the uniform has a base colour other than the blue?

Graham.

[bkristof]

isn't the tunic a Pattern 22 model????

My humble opinion on it?

An ex- military tunic, dyed in dark blue for the ambulance (after the war) and now presented as Kitchener blue by a smart man...

[T8HANTS]

Hi

Kristoff probably has it. It was the practice during WW2 to dye battle dress for ARP users, I have two in my collection. So there is no reason why an earlier pattern tunic could not have been dyed for the Warwickshire Ambulance service or even the Red Cross themselves.

I was under the impression that Kitchener Blue was made out of the vast stocks of Post Office material, and were of a very simple pattern, not dyed kahki tunics.

Gareth

[Joe Sweeney]

It's not a dyed pattern 22 and doesn't look like the Navy Blue uniform jacket issued to R War. Regiment--too many discrepencies. Size of buttons, no rifle patches. Although this might not discount it as not being a Kitchner blue, only it doesn't look like the ones that were issued to the Birmingham PALs (going by the photos in Terry's book)

There were many types of jackets that fell into the category of Kitchener blues.

These ran from simple frocks to pattern sealed examples specially made. I believe that the IWM has a pattern sealed example that looks like a normal SD jacket in Blue.

I've handled two Kitchner jackets and the interior pieces may not be white. Only one had white the other was Blue the same as the serge. I believe that bulk dying would not have been out of the question to fill orders.

I have a great coat "Blue Emergency Pattern" made by "Hobson and Sons of London". This is not on a tailors sewn label but a nice paper label that has quite a few nice pieces of information. The interior pieces are Blue and pattern wise conforms to the Emergency pattern great coat which was the same as the simplified pattern save the color of wool.

Now having said why it could be good. I would not bid as to me it just doesn't look right.

Joe Sweeney

[Terry Carter]

Thanks for the replies.

I do not think I will be bidding on it. I have been told there is an original Birmingham Battalion navy-blue uniform jacket tucked away in a store room at the Royal Warwicks/Fusiliers Museum. Hope to one day get a look at it and take a picture of it.

Regards

Terry