RND

[Tim Birch]

Where men drafted from ships into the RND or did they join direct? Was service in the trenches compulsory or did men get a choice between this or serving at sea?

Tim

[Guest tintin]

My understanding of the RND was that it was formed from surplus Naval Reservists ie men for whom there were no places on ships

It was also possible to enlist directly into the RND from Civil life and it had its own Depots to train raw recruits. I believe it was possible for a man to be transferred back to sea at his own request, but this was obviously subject to there being a place for him.

[Geoff Parker]

Tim

I belive Tintin has answered your question the men were initially naval reservists who could not be allocated a ship berth. Certainly men were recruited directly into the RND as I have see a copy of one of their recruiting posters.

Geoff

[Jonathan Saunders]

I would just add it was very difficult to get a sea-going appointment once drafted to the RND, much to the chagrin of many old-sailors ... or young Merchant/Reservist officers. As you will be aware Tim, this had tragic circumstances for Edwin Dyett.

[Guest tintin]

After a little bit of digging in the book and notes collection at home...

There was originally a fixed establishment of different types of sailor for the ORs of each naval battalion:-

Regular Royal Navy - 28 Petty Officers

Royal Fleet Reserve - 48 Petty Officers and 250 Stokers

Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve - 424 Petty Officers, Leading Seamen and Seamen

Royal Naval Reserve - 187 seamen under 30 years of age

Each of the two brigades had a band which were intended to be drawn from recruits at the Royal Naval School of Music at Eastney, but the RNVR brought their own bandsmen.

For those unfamiliar with the different reserves the Royal Fleet Reserve was like the Army Reserve - ex-regulars liable for re-call. The Royal Naval Reserve was like the Army Emergency Reserve - basically people doing their civilian jobs in the service and so requiring minimal training (in this case sailors and trawlermen). The Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve was like the Territorials, people whose civilian jobs were completely unrelated to the military who did extensive training on a part time basis.

The officers were selected by an Admiralty committee which ranged far and wide across the armed forces of the Crown

This was almost immediately disrupted by the Navy taking higher casualties than they had anticipated resulting in many of the better trained reservists being sent to the Fleet. These were replaced by men recruited directly to the RND through the RNVR divisions. 3,000 further RNVR were recruited to replace the casualties of the campaign in Belgium and 10,000 later to meet the needs created by the Gallipoli campaign.These recruits were recruited specifically for land service.

The RND Depot was at Crystal Palace where a 4 to 8 basic training was given before posting to the Divisional Training Camp at Blandford in Dorset.

[michaeldr]

Was service in the trenches compulsory or did men get a choice between this or serving at sea?

The short answer to this part of your question Tim, is "No"

After the RND took a hammering on 4th June 1915 at Gallipoli there were some requests from the old salts (including Commodore Backhouse) to return to a berth at sea, but these requests were originally rejected by Major-General Paris

The Navy later changed its mind (presumably under changed circumstances). Backhouse got his transfer on 1st Aug '15 and shortly after 300 fleet reserve stokers were ordered to leave Gallipoli for the fleet. (see p.119 'The Hood Battalion' by Len Sellers - a highly recommended read)

There may be other examples of RND men returning to the sea, but I think that it is safe to say that it was a very rare occurrence and even then only at the initiative of the fleet, not the men

Regards

Michael D.R.

[Alan Seymour]

The following image is the Royal Naval Division - British recruting poster, c.1915 and it is taken from IWM PC0124 Cat. No. IWM PST 0820

[Tim Birch]

Thanks guys. Must have seemed pretty unfair to a man bent on a "life on the ocean waves" to find himself living and dying the "life of a mole" where the only water he lived on or in was in the bottom of some stinking trench.

Tim