SGT Marlow medal card mystery

[Hopkins1418]

Ive been researching this member of my family for Probably the longest. His name was

Cornelius Marlow born 1875 in Scarborough

He served with the green Howard’s and I managed just to get his medal card. As he served with the 5th green Howard’s he took part in the battle of St Julian. His medal card states that he was awarded the 1914-1915 star the BWM the victory medal and the TEM with a clasp it also says beside this Ao1 of 42 years is this a reference to when he was discharge in [when he was 42 years old] in 1916? Also He is listed next to his regiment as L/cl [lance corpral] then sgt below it. However on the further info bit His army number is listed as WO11 4381454 giving the impressian he a further three ranks above sgt [am I right?]. As a terrier I belive he must have been one of the first to join in 1908 as his number is 57 and later [same reg] 37.

I always believed the Tem would be the territorial efficiency medal however Ive just found that those who qualified for the 1914 or 15 stars were not qualified to get one, however my man has? And also what’s the clasp for I have no references to any clasps in my medal yearbooks.

Any help ansuering these mysteries would be great.

Will

Edited 2 January , 2006 by Hopkins1418

[Hopkins1418]

Heres a picture of him so you can put a name to a face.

[Hopkins1418]

sorry forgot to mention he is mentioned in Mark Marsays book "Baptism of Fire" in which there is a poem about the 5th green howards pioneers. heres an extract

"Theres a section of lads with the 5th Green Howards In France, Who worthing something more than a passing glance. There here for hard work, Fighting huns aint their game, but they get in some hot spots just the same."

" No 1 sergeant marlow their leader and friend, A brave yorkshire Laddie, the very best blend, you wont find one better where ever you stay, Than this fine dashing non com from down Scarborough way."

Private E Dawson 1915

The poem goes on to describe his section. Well good ay? Found this book a few years ago I couldnt belive it.

Edited 2 January , 2006 by Hopkins1418

[Max (UK)]

The poem goes on to describe his section. Well good ay? Found this book a few years ago I couldnt belive it.

That IS an awesome find - you're lucky - you got the medal card, the photo and now that book find - great stuff !

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

I always believed the Tem would be the territorial efficiency medal however Ive just found that those who qualified for the 1914 or 15 stars were not qualified to get one, however my man has? And also what’s the clasp for I have no references to any clasps in my medal yearbooks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Will;

I think you are getting a tad confused,The Territorial Efficiency Medal[TEM] was an award for Long & Efficient Service & bears no relation to any Campaign Medal,It was awarded for attaining certain Criteria {eg attending Camps Etc} for a period of 12 Years as a Member of the TF/TA{Originally this Medal wa the Territorial Force Efficiency Medal [TEFM],it became the TEM in 1920,when the TF became the TA}War service counted double toward it.[These Medals are in Silver & are unusually Oval in shape]

The Territorial medal you,I think are confusing it with is the TFWM {Territorial Force War Medal,a Bronze Medal Granted to those Members of the TF who were Members of;or rejoined,a TF Regiment prior to September 1914 & Volunteered for Overseas Service,& Served Overseas after 31st December 1915,THUS Not qualifying for either of the Stars.

The Clasp referred to is for the TEM as additional clasps were awarded for further periods of service.

[Hopkins1418]

Cheers for clearing that up! So he served at least twelve years before ww1. How many years would the clasp be worth? Im just thinking would he qualify in the time range for The boer war? seems possible as he would only of of been 23 24 25 at the time.

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

Cheers for clearing that up! So he served at least twelve years before ww1. How many years would the clasp be worth? Im just thinking would he qualify in the time range for The boer war? seems possible as he would only of of been 23 24 25 at the time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He would have received a Clasp for a further 6 Years{or 3 years Active War Service}however if it is the TEM he would have received that after 1921,as prior to that the TEFM was awarded,in effect he would have been entitled to the TEM after just 8 years as if serving throughout WW1 his 4 years{nearly} would have been adjudged as nearly 8 Years towards his TEM.

He could well have been in the Boer War,though he would have either been a Regular,Militia or a Member of one of the Volunteer Units,as the TF did not come into being until 1908.

His Extremely low number on the TEM would suggest he was @ least a Pre 1908 Member of the Volunteer Battalion of the Regiment his later TEM is impressed to;& having carried on in the TF when that began[VBs became TF Battalions]Time served with the Volunteers would have counted towards the TEM also,provided the 12 Trainings;etc; per annum were attended.{Which may be the reason he didnt get an earlier award}

Is there a seperate Card for the TEM?

[Hopkins1418]

No I don’t think there is a separate card. It says simply in the Action taken area [this is a 1914-15 card] TEM with another TEM under it it says clasp AO 42 of 1915 [could be 1925 but I think its a messed up 1].

in another area its says Green Howard’s # WO11 4381454. This must have been written in later as Wo11 isn’t a Sgts job Im sure its a Sergeants majors job.

So what dates of service range are we looking at here???

also where would I look for terrotorials records previous to 1908. are they online?

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

in another area its says Green Howard’s # WO11 4381454.  .

So what dates of service range are we looking at here???

also where would I look for Territorials records previous to 1908. are they online?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I expect he was a WO2 @ home,or at a later date,post 1920s as the Number is of that era{An individual Unique Service Number}

from his early two figure number & post 1920s Number,it would seem that he probably served for @ least 18,but more likely 25 or so years {perhaps not continuous}.

Unless his full service record is retained @ the NA {not online} then I doubt any seperate information on his TF service pre WW1 will be available @ the NA,your best bet with early TF men is local studies & records who tend to have their own experts in that field,try your {his} Local library.Local contemporary newspapers carried stories of local interest on such Soldiers,it often involves a hefty search but can prove worthwhile.

[Hopkins1418]

Hmmm now comes the hards part. Looks like Im officially into the detailed stuff. As im only sixteen with limited funds looks like getting someone to look at kew for me is going to be the next step on the other hand Im going to see if any one can help me on the papers front at Rootschat.com. Thanks for your help with the time range that puts me close to the boer war range [which i know for a fact Scarborough has records]. Looks like this guy did a fair share.

He went on to have three daughters of which one was elsie born 1900 unfortunatly she died giving birth to twins [in 1930] of which one was my grandad. So are man went on to raise him untill he died around 1955. unfortunatly my grandad died in 1983 so i never knew him, only my nan remembers the stern yet peacefull man that was my great grandad. I have a few pictures of him at a camp circa 1914 and when he was in his 70s that i could post [ If you want]. His house is a hundred meters away from my nans[ i cant wait to visit Scarborough prob in the new year.]

Well thanks for the help any advice on researchers at Kew you have used in the past that you could recommend would be great.

Thanks again Will

[Jim Strawbridge]

Hmmm now comes the hards part. Looks like Im officially into the detailed stuff. As im only sixteen with limited funds etc

Thanks again Will

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Being only 16 you have done a damned good job of your researches (and understanding the gateways) so far. Well done. Mind you, when I was only 16 I knew it all anyway !!! But keep it up and let us know how you get on. And by the way, there is another section on this Forum "I'm going to the NA" where you might find someone willing to do the searching that you need there.

[Hopkins1418]

Thanks for the comments. yeah its been pretty hard but Ive had alot of help from people at this site and www.rootschat.com has been brills. Ill have a look at the possible link you gave.

Ive been so surprised at how willing people are to help you its been great. Ill keep uptodate If i find anything

Will

Edited 2 January , 2006 by Hopkins1418

[Hopkins1418]

Managed to get a clearer pick from the original. You can just about make out what looks like crossed spades possibly. Does anyone know what pioneer arm insignia look like??? Seems he was a corpral in this pick you can just about make out his chevrons.

cheers for everyones help again Im considering contacting the Author of the book Hes mentioned in however I havent yet been to the NA to have a look for his service record and I think it would make sense to find that first. what do you reckon?

any help will be apreciated on the insignia matter.

cheers will

[472Bruce]

Wondering if you're still researching. Cornelius Marlow was my great grandfather and I'm named after him.

My understanding from my brother's research is that he served the remainder of the war until taken prisoner in late 1917 or early 1918. He returned home in 1919. I found a headstone commemorating him in a Scarborough cemetery a good 10 years ago. I should revisit.

Anyway I'm visiting Ypres in May and a large part of my visit will be to remember great grandad Con and his comrades.

[kenf48]

35 minutes ago, 472Bruce said:

Wondering if you're still researching.

Welcome to the GWF

@Hopkins1418 is a member of the forum and my tag should alert them to your post but they have not visited us for nine months.

You can also use the Personal Message system just click on the name an open the dialog box "Message' to contact them directly

[Matlock1418]

1 hour ago, 472Bruce said:

taken prisoner in late 1917 or early 1918.

Welcome to GWF.

ICRC PoW records at https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Details/3894099/3/2 - looks like he was taken into the bag at Chemin des Dames 27.5.18, Unwounded - as 240002

M

Edited 20 March by Matlock1418
240002 added

[Matlock1418]

MIC has the numbers 37, 57, 240002 and 4881454

Could perhaps be worth looking for any other 240002 records

M