Mark Hone Posted 13 August , 2003 Posted 13 August , 2003 I picked up the new edition (and slightly revised map) whilst in the Salient last week. I know that some forumites have criticized some of the other Holts guides (notably their Gallipoli map) but I have found their Ypres Salient guide, in its various editions, an absolutely invaluable vade mecum for my school tours and private visits. Five or six previous copies of the map have fallen to pieces after much use and I can honestly say that I have never found any inaccuracies in it either driving, cycling or walking. The new (Fourth Edition) contains a few extra sites (including Yorkshire Trench, which is called 'Boesinghe Archaeological Site') and I noticed at least one amendment to a road-the lane at the back of the new industrial zone is now correctly shown as two cul-de-sacs. The text of the main book has been extensively revised, and includes a completely new 'War Underground' tour. It includes accounts and photographs of recently dedicated memorials such as the Indian Army one at Hollebeke. I was particularly impressed by its mention of very recent developments such as the doubt over the identity of Condon and changes at Talbot House. Our own school plaque at St George's church is even mentioned, even though the dedication ceremony will not be until October 2004! The index has also been tidied up somewhat. Unfortunately a few long-standing errors still remain, such as the story that the two Australian VCs buried at Tyne Cot were awarded for the capture of the right-hand pillbox in the cemetery. However these are relatively minor quibbles in what I still think is an indispensible, easy to use and beautifully-illustrated book. The pace of change on the Salient seems to be quickening and so it is probably never a good time to publish a guidebook but this will keep the visitor going for a year or two.
Somme1916 Posted 22 August , 2003 Posted 22 August , 2003 The cover page photo is really AWSOME!!! (that will be 50p Iain) Jon
Paul Reed Posted 23 August , 2003 Posted 23 August , 2003 I agree that this is certainly the better of the WW1 guides they have done, and that the map is the best of all of them. That is not surprising when you consider it is probably based on a combination of the Ypres League Map of the Salient and Dr A.Caenapel's 'Ieper en de frontstreek' (excuse my flemish!) map, both of which are excellent maps in their own right. I don't have a copy of this new editon (or the earlier ones come to that), but I was pleased to read they have given space to the work of the Diggers and it is nice to see one of Iain's superb aerial photos on the cover.
Guest Hill 60 Posted 23 August , 2003 Posted 23 August , 2003 I have the 2000 edition, is it worth me getting the 2003 edition? I'm off to the Salient this November, so if it's worth upgrading then I'll have to get one soonish
Mark Hone Posted 24 August , 2003 Author Posted 24 August , 2003 I hemmed and hawed before getting the new edition but eventually succumbed. I think that there is sufficient new material in it to justify purchase. (As I say in my earlier posting the new edition is very up to date with new memorials etc). Its use of set routes does cause a number of interesting sites to be completely overlooked and there are a number of nagging errors in it but hey, no-one's perfect.
Guest Hill 60 Posted 25 August , 2003 Posted 25 August , 2003 Mark - Cheers, I'll see if I can pick up a copy before I go. What are the 'nagging errors' in it?
Mark Hone Posted 27 August , 2003 Author Posted 27 August , 2003 Lee-There are a few errors which have clung on from previous editions and which I have identified in researching battlefield tours (I never rely on a single source!). The Tyne Cot VCs mistake I mention in my original posting. Neither Jeffries nor McGee were awarded their medals for capturing the right-hand pillbox in the cemetery as the Holts state. McGee won his for the capture of the German strongpoint 'Hamburg', on the other side of the road and just down the slope from Tyne Cot. Jeffries won his for the capture of the 25-strong garrison of Hillside Farm north of the cemetery. He was killed later the same day assaulting a machine gun position at Decline Copse. The location of these two VC actions seems to have caused a lot of confusion to guidebook writers. Scott (Ypres Salient) has a detailed and wholly erroneous account of Jeffries assaulting the pillbox where the Cross of Sacrifice now stands and then dying attacking the one in the south-east corner. I'm surprised the Holts persist with their mistake, especially since the actions for which the two VCs were awarded quite clearly happened on different days. Elsewhere in the guide they wrongly locate the Dancox VC on the site of Langemarck Cemetery, when in fact it occurred at Namur Crossing some distance way. To be fair their wording is a bit vague, but the implication is that the VC was won there. (They also claim that the bunkers at one end of the cemetery are genuine but I am sure that someone has pointed out on this forum that they are symbolic replicas). I am sure that there are other mistakes (Rev Bayley-Hardy is incorrectly described as the most-decorated non-combatant for example) but given the overall quality of the guide I feel a bit churlish pointing these things out. Even Homer nods!
Guest Hill 60 Posted 27 August , 2003 Posted 27 August , 2003 Mark - Thanks for pointing the errors out for me, much obliged. Gotta go, the women's hurdles has just come on...and Jenny Adams is running!
Kirkes Lamb Posted 21 February , 2007 Posted 21 February , 2007 The cover page photo is really AWSOME!!! (that will be 50p Iain) Jon Talking of covers-Pen and Swords Jonathan Wilkinson really does a great job with the covers for their books! Lee-There are a few errors which have clung on from previous editions and which I have identified in researching battlefield tours (I never rely on a single source!). The Tyne Cot VCs mistake I mention in my original posting. Neither Jeffries nor McGee were awarded their medals for capturing the right-hand pillbox in the cemetery as the Holts state. McGee won his for the capture of the German strongpoint 'Hamburg', on the other side of the road and just down the slope from Tyne Cot. Jeffries won his for the capture of the 25-strong garrison of Hillside Farm north of the cemetery. He was killed later the same day assaulting a machine gun position at Decline Copse. The location of these two VC actions seems to have caused a lot of confusion to guidebook writers. Scott (Ypres Salient) has a detailed and wholly erroneous account of Jeffries assaulting the pillbox where the Cross of Sacrifice now stands and then dying attacking the one in the south-east corner. I'm surprised the Holts persist with their mistake, especially since the actions for which the two VCs were awarded quite clearly happened on different days. Elsewhere in the guide they wrongly locate the Dancox VC on the site of Langemarck Cemetery, when in fact it occurred at Namur Crossing some distance way. To be fair their wording is a bit vague, but the implication is that the VC was won there. (They also claim that the bunkers at one end of the cemetery are genuine but I am sure that someone has pointed out on this forum that they are symbolic replicas). I am sure that there are other mistakes (Rev Bayley-Hardy is incorrectly described as the most-decorated non-combatant for example) but given the overall quality of the guide I feel a bit churlish pointing these things out. Even Homer nods!
Kirkes Lamb Posted 21 February , 2007 Posted 21 February , 2007 Lee-There are a few errors which have clung on from previous editions and which I have identified in researching battlefield tours (I never rely on a single source!). The Tyne Cot VCs mistake I mention in my original posting. Neither Jeffries nor McGee were awarded their medals for capturing the right-hand pillbox in the cemetery as the Holts state. McGee won his for the capture of the German strongpoint 'Hamburg', on the other side of the road and just down the slope from Tyne Cot. Jeffries won his for the capture of the 25-strong garrison of Hillside Farm north of the cemetery. He was killed later the same day assaulting a machine gun position at Decline Copse. The location of these two VC actions seems to have caused a lot of confusion to guidebook writers. Scott (Ypres Salient) has a detailed and wholly erroneous account of Jeffries assaulting the pillbox where the Cross of Sacrifice now stands and then dying attacking the one in the south-east corner. I'm surprised the Holts persist with their mistake, especially since the actions for which the two VCs were awarded quite clearly happened on different days. Elsewhere in the guide they wrongly locate the Dancox VC on the site of Langemarck Cemetery, when in fact it occurred at Namur Crossing some distance way. To be fair their wording is a bit vague, but the implication is that the VC was won there. (They also claim that the bunkers at one end of the cemetery are genuine but I am sure that someone has pointed out on this forum that they are symbolic replicas). I am sure that there are other mistakes (Rev Bayley-Hardy is incorrectly described as the most-decorated non-combatant for example) but given the overall quality of the guide I feel a bit churlish pointing these things out. Even Homer nods! If there are errors-drop Toni and Valmai a note and tell them-they are very nice people and wont bite your head off.
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