Excellent news....re South Africa graves

[Drummy]

Just noted on the CWGC news section that the CWGC are to take over, in 2006, the responsibility of caring for British and Imperial War Graves & Memorials of the Boer War. I hope that this means an improvement to the condition of many sites where the soldiers are buried or commemorated.

Whilst I would imagine the CWGC will just look after maintenance on behalf of the MOD I feel this would be a superb opportunity to see the creation of an online searchable database (similar to current CWGC) covering all known British/Imperial troops that died in that conflict with accompanying places of burial / commemoration listed. This in itself would be a worthy tribute to the men (& women?) that died.

I wonder if the MOD/CWGC are considering such a move?

[CROONAERT]

This will be a welcome move indeed. After all, the Kriegsgraberfursorge look after the graves/cemeteries of the Franco-German War and the ABMC look after those of Mexican War of 1847, I believe it's time that their focus was extended.

Dave.

[Terry Denham]

CWGC will only care for the maintenance of the graves under contract to MoD as is permitted in their Charter. MoD will remain the responsible authority.

This does not make them Commonwealth War Graves under the CWGC Charter but they will be classed as Non-World War Graves in CWGC Care - as are about 20,000 others already.

CWGC will add the names to the Non-World War section of their database in due course as they have for all other NWW graves in their care. You will be able to request copies of these details from them in time. The NWW section is not yet available on the website as CWGC maintain such a list for operational reasons only. They have no Charter authority to spend funds on making it available generally.

This move, I believe, was instigated after all the negative reports of grave robbing etc affecting these graves.

[DMcNay]

I feel this would be a superb opportunity to see the creation of an online searchable database (similar to current CWGC) covering all known British/Imperial troops that died in that conflict with accompanying places of burial / commemoration listed. This in itself would be a worthy tribute to the men (& women?) that died.

I wonder if the MOD/CWGC are considering such a move?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This book is quite useful in listing many of the graves, although I've found it a little tricky to work out the references. Each entry has a code for what type of grave it is, and some seem to have more than one.

If there's a name you're looking for let me know and I'll do a lookup for you. In some cases it lists quite a bit of detail, from exactly how a man died (some entries are very specific on cause of death) and in some cases gives their religion.

Going back to the original topic, this is good news, and hopefully means some of the graves will be better looked after. I've seen some photographs of Boer War graves and they are in poor condition in places, with names almost unreadable.

[Kathie]

The CWGC needs to do something about Second World War graves. in South AFrica. For instance, I had occasion to look for WWII graves in the little village of Port Alfred in the Eastern Cape. There are about seven WWII graves in the Settler cemetery on the East Bank - there was an RAF airfield outside the village. All are uncared for, in a mess, broken surrounds, etc. Clearly, noone official has shown any interest since burial and erection of the stones.

Kathie

[Terry Denham]

Have you reported this to the CWGC South African office?

E-mail: cwgc@mweb.co.za

Secretary: Brigadier-General Johan Potgieter

All headstones are inspected regularly but in some locations local conditions make this difficult - particularly in SA.

I presume these are CWGC headstones and not private ones.

It is likely that care has been agreed with some local authority that is not doing its job and CWGC needs to be informed.

[Borderman]

This was in the DT today. CWGC needs to get a move on.

"All 217 of the cemetery's British graves from the Boer War have been stripped of their cast iron crosses. These heavy objects, each marked "For King and Empire" with the name of the fallen soldier, disappeared overnight, carried away by thieves who probably made about £400 by melting them down for scrap.

The Klerksdorp vandalism was only the latest example of the decline and decay of British cemeteries from the Boer War. Across South Africa thousands of crosses marking the graves of 22,000 British soldiers who died in this brutal conflict have been stolen.

South Africa's national museum commemorating the Boer War has been reduced to removing all 300 British crosses from Bloemfontein cemetery and locking them away for safe keeping. There is no evidence of organised desecration. Simple theft is the only motive.

The recent looting of Klerksdorp cemetery appalled the fraternity of South Africans who take a passionate interest in the 1899-1902 war.

Reon Snyman, 53, a local historian, said: "A part of our history has gone away for ever and all I can say to the fallen soldiers now is rest in peace in South Africa's soil.

"Even if we got the crosses back, we'd never be able to pinpoint the right graves to replace them. They are gone and it's a loss to South Africa and to England as well.""

Daily Telegraph

By David Blair in Klerksdorp

(Filed: 11/11/2005)

You can read the whole article on their web site

Telegraph

Sad.

[Borden Battery]

From the CEF Study Group's Recommended List of Great War websites ...

*The South Africa War Graves Project

The goal of the South Africa War Graves Project is to archive photographs of every single South African & Rhodesian war grave from the 2nd Anglo-Boer War, WW1, WW2, Korea, Rand Revolt, Freedom Struggle, Angola-Border War to present day. These photos will either be in the format of a picture of a headstone or a name on a memorial.

http://www.southafricawargraves.org/

[Drummy]

Disgusted to hear the news posted by 'Borderman', lets hope the CWGC are given records, plans etc to assist them doing their job. In relation to British Army Graves, we now have the following databases:

CWGC covering all First War deaths 1914-21

CWGC covering all Second War deaths 1939-47

MOD covering all British Army deaths between 1947 upto today (not available to public)

When you think of all the soldiers who served their country in the many conflicts or on duty before 1914 and between the war 1921-1939 the majority of whose, I suspect, graves/memorials are truly lost, forgotten or neglected (e.g. India) I could not think of a better time to have a virtual memorial in the form of a database commemorating these men then at least their names are not forgotten. I for one would be a willing volunteer to work on such a project!

[Borderman]

Good for you Drummy

Brilliant idea. Simple. Straight forward.