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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

RFA Photograph


kildaremark

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post-6633-1131213583.jpg

This photograph is of a RFA unit at Kildare, Ireland in 1916. Can any artillery experts out there give me further details - type of battery, which unit could they be?

If not, just enjoy the photo.

Mark

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Are you sure that they are RFA and not Royal Horse Artillery? It being Kildare, the Curragh Camp was in Kildare and 4th Hussars and 16th Lancers were based there along with units of Royal Horse Artillery. These would have been D and E Batterys Royal Horse Artillery. Although these regiments were at war in 1916 I am pretty sure that there was a Reserve Cavalry Regiment based there during this time.

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post-6633-1131226514.jpg

THanks Ciaran,

The photo says "Royal Field Artillery, Kildare 1916" on back but this could have been added later. The photo is definitely Kildare town from the background. Wasn't the RHA normally in Newbridge rather than in Kildare?

The 5th and 12th Lancers went to Kildare town in mid 1915 but obviously wouldn't have artillery. Can anyone tell the difference between RFA and RHA from the type of guns?

Do you have a list of units which served in kildare Barracks during the war until 1922?

Mark

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Actually Mark, you are right. It was Newbridge and not the Curragh. Both in Kildare though so I was close :rolleyes:

The Royal Field Artillery as far as I can tell used 18 Pounder guns and the RHA used the smaller and lighter 13 Pounder Guns.

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Actually Mark, you are right. It was Newbridge and not the Curragh. Both in Kildare though so I was close  :rolleyes:

The Royal Field Artillery as far as I can tell used 18 Pounder guns and the RHA used the smaller and lighter 13 Pounder Guns.

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Ciaran,

There is a 5th (Royal Irish) Lancer buried in Kildare town. I will get a photo of the grave for you in the next few days and post.

Add to your collection.

Mark

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Thanks very much Mark. I have been to Kildare quite a few times as my Mum lives in Carlow. Mostly I've been to Athy which is a quaint little place.

Would the grave be an officer's grave? If so, it could be Lieutenant T deBurgh who was from Athy. Killed early in the war around Le Cateau. I think the only other member of the regiment was Private Lawrence Curtis who was born in Athy. KIA 4/12/17

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Ciaran,

5th Lancer buried in Kildare. Do you know anything about him. No doubt an accident or illness?

post-6633-1131882133.jpg

12th Lancer buried beside him.

post-6633-1131882379.jpg

if you have any further details on these, let me know.

Thank

Mark

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Ciaran,

5th Lancer buried in Kildare. Do you know anything about him. No doubt an accident or illness?

post-6633-1131882133.jpg

12th Lancer buried beside him.

post-6633-1131882379.jpg

if you have any further details on these, let me know.

Thank

Mark

Mark,

Thanks for posting. This is really interesting because he is not listed in the Soldiers Died list for the 5th (Royal Irish) Lancers. As you say it must be an ilness or accident that he died from as the regiment was in billets undergoing training in France on this date. There were 13 other ranks sick during this time but no deaths reported in the War Diary. He could well have been a memeber of the 6th Reserve Cavalry Regiment which coincedently was a training regiment for both the 5th and 12th Lancers. With their deaths being just weeks apart it makes it even more interesting. It doesn't look like he ever went abroad as he did not recive the Mons Star or Victory Medal and neither are listed on the MIC Database.

Unless there is a local paper archive we may never find out. I am not sure if old copies of the Kildare Observer are available anywhere but that is the best bet for listing those from Kildare who died during the Great War.

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Mark

To get back to the original question - this is definitely an RFA unit as the weapons in the enlargement from your picture are clearly 4.5" Howitzers with a box trail - this may narrow the field for you!

Mike

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The other useful clue to distinguish RFA from RHA is that all the RHA men were mounted whereas RFA had men riding on the limbers. This was because the RHA provided artillery support for cavalary units and were meant therefore to be more mobile.

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Thanks Mike and Gunboat,

Ciaran,

Original Kildare Observer is held in Newbridge Library. I might have a look some day when I get a chance.

The Leinster Leader reported on 7/7/1915 that the 5th and 12th Lancers would be coming to Kildare in the next few days with up to 1,100 men.

A lot of casualties have been recorded from these but of 'locals' rather than people stationed in the area -

There are a few Lancers recorded as follows:

Bennett, Billy. Rank; Private, 16th Lancers. Reported wounded, April 24, 1915. Born Athy .

Case. Rank; Captain, 16th Lancers. Reported wounded, April 24, 1915. Born Athy .

Curtis, Lawrence. Reg. No. 6674. Rank; Private, (Royal Irish) Lancers, 5th Batt. Died of wounds, France, December 4, 1917. Born Athy, Co. Kildare

deBurgh, Thomas. Rank; Lieutenant, 31st Lancers, Indian Army. Prisoner of War 1914, died September 14, 1914. Born Oldtown, Naas, Age 26. Decoration Distinguished Conduct Order, Mentioned in despatches

Jones. Rank; Sergeant, 5th Lancers. Reported wounded, April 24, 1915. Born Athy.

Leslie. Rank; Sergeant-Major, 5th Lancers. Reported wounded, April 24, 1915. Born Athy

Moore, R.S.T. Rank; Lieutenant, 12th Lancers. Reported Prisoner of War, 1915, returned home, 1917. Born Kilashee, Naas

O’Brien-Butler, P.. Rank; Captain, Royal Army Medical Corps, 16th Lancers. Killed in action, Bailleul, France, November 1, 1914. Born Leslie House, Kildare

Wilson. Rank; Sergeant-Major, 16th Lancers. Reported wounded, April 24, 1915. Born Athy

Mark

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Mark, great info you've posted.

Curtis, Lawrence. Reg. No. 6674. Rank; Private, (Royal Irish) Lancers, 5th Batt. Died of wounds, France, December 4, 1917. Born Athy, Co. Kildare

3rd Cavalry Brigade were in trenches running from Gauche Wood to Vacellette Farm on 4th Dec but were in Gouzeacourt two days before. This is probably where Private Curtis was wounded.

deBurgh, Thomas. Rank; Lieutenant, 31st Lancers, Indian Army. Prisoner of War 1914, died September 14, 1914. Born Oldtown, Naas, Age 26. Decoration Distinguished Conduct Order, Mentioned in despatches

Lieutenant de Burgh's C Squadron was acting as flank guard during the Battle of The Marne and was killed by machine gun fire whilst on a recce mission by the banks of the river.

Jones. Rank; Sergeant, 5th Lancers. Reported wounded, April 24, 1915. Born Athy.

This was probably due to gas poisoning. It was the 5th Lancers first experience of gas. They were in reserve trenches at the canal 1 mile east of Brielen just outside of Ypres.

Leslie. Rank; Sergeant-Major, 5th Lancers. Reported wounded, April 24, 1915. Born Athy

Same as above

O’Brien-Butler, P.. Rank; Captain, Royal Army Medical Corps, 16th Lancers. Killed in action, Bailleul, France, November 1, 1914. Born Leslie House, Kildare

I think this might be inaccurate. Captain P. O'Brien-Butler was attached to the 5th Lancers and was killed at Ypres in October 1914. This is according to the offical history and a personal diaries. I cannot find him on the CWGC site though.

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