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Remembered Today:

Wattle Dump, Ypres


DaveBrigg

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One of the men I'm researching was a New Zealander killed at Wattle Dump, Ypres on 12th December 1917. He is buried at Menin Rd South cemetery. The war diary mentions rations being delivered, and that his unit, 2nd Otago Regt, were in the Polderhoek chateau area.

Does anyone know where Wattle Dump was in 1917, or even better, how it relates to the modern day layout of Ypres?

Thanks

Dave

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Hi Dave,

Judging by its name, Wattle Dump sounds Australian in origin, but I can't find any reference to it in the usual sources. I'll keep looking and let you know if something turns up.

Cheers,

Mat

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Thanks Mat. I haven't found anything on the standard maps, and a search of the net produced results which were quite educational, though they unfortunately lacked any WW1 relevance ;)

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I've just looked at several 1918 dated (these show more detail than the earlier non "secret" editions) 1;10,000 and 1;20,000 scale trenchmaps and traced practically every named feature for about 3 miles north and south of the Menin Road between Polderhoek Chateau and the town of Ypres. I'm afraid, I've drawn a blank also.

Could I ask you your source for the name of this place? I'm just wondering whether "Wattle Dump" could possibly be a "locally" (ie. known as that to one particular unit, rather than being an "official" name)named place. Then again, not all features are ever shown on trenchmaps.

Dave.

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Many thanks Peter and Dave, for giving this your attention. The source of information was AConnolly, who gave me the following '

"2 Otago were in the Polderhoek Chateau area, initially in reserve.

Quote War Diary 2 Otago 12 December 1917 “While the rations were being delivered at Wattle Dump at 5am the enemy put over about 20 5.9’s which caused casualties amounting to four killed and 8 wounded. Three Company QMS’s were casualties, one being killed and two wounded. Three mules killed and three wounded. Interchange of companies in front and support lines was carried out without casualties during day-light.”"

Percy Symonds was a mule driver with 2nd Otago Regt, and died on that day, so I assume he was one of the four who were killed, and would have been buried nearby. If he was wounded and removed to a CCS then the location could have been a little further afield. He was originally from Lincolnshire, but had emigrated to New Zealand and bought a farm. It's sad to think that having built a successful life he then travelled all that way back to Europe, and died a few hundred miles from his family.

Dave

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Dave.

Though Wattle Dump isn't shown, I thought you might be interested to see a trenchmap showing the lines near Polderhoek Chateau at the beginning of December 1917. This is the nearest that I have to the date you require (German positions dated 5th Dec.1917).

Dave..

post-357-1131235435.jpg

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Many thanks for the map Dave, it all adds to the picture.

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Dave,

its got me going.

Wattle Dump does not get a mention in Chris McCarthey's Passchendaele or Military Operations France and Belgium 1917 (Official History of the War)

I also did a word search on The Official History of Australia in the War of 1914-1918 by CEW Bean and there were 9 references to wattle but none involving Wattle Dump

Peter

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Peter

Many Thanks for looking anyway. Another one of those mysteries that's destined never to be resolved?

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  • 2 months later...

?????????????

I had assumed wattle meant a sort of fence panel woven from sticks, of the sort that might be placed on the ground to cope with muddy conditions. I have to admit my ignorance of this part of Python. Care to explain? :rolleyes:

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I thought wattle and daub, like your woven panel. But a woven panel like you suggest is usually called a hurdle and was used as revetment in trench construction.

But there is mention of an antipodean connection.

So, I just went off at a tangent and thought about the Python sketch of the university of woolamaloo which contains the lines

"This here's the wattle- emblem of our land. You can stick it in a bottle or you can hold it in yer hand."

The wattle being a type of plant IIRC.

Very obscure thoughts but there you go!!

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Hey! You're a genius. A quick search found this: As Australians became more patriotic towards the end of the 1800s, they began to appreciate Australian native plants more, and started a search for a floral symbol of the country. Wattle enthusiasts established wattle clubs and an unofficial national wattle day.

In 1912, the wattle was incorporated into the design of the Australian Coat of Arms. Throughout the 1900s many unofficially regarded the wattle as Australia's national flower. But the wattle was not officially proclaimed as the national floral emblem until Australia's bicentennial year of 1988.

post-7552-1138662306.jpg

From an official Aussie site. And I thought Monty Python was just about dead parrots.

That just leaves the question of where this dump was sited...

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  • 7 years later...

Seven years later and a little more progress. From the online version of 'With The Trench Mortars In France' by the New Zealander W E L Napier, describing December 1917

"the "carry" of ammunition over rough country from "Wattle Dump" near Westhoek Ridge to the front line, a distance of about two miles by the Duckwalk Track, was very hard on the men, and it was not until after Christmas that our ammunition was brought right up to "The Crucifix Dump" near the "Butte de Polygon" by a light railway". Wattle dump was a light railway 'station' on the line which eventually ended at Crucifix Dump. The same book describes the German shelling "In one of these concentrated local bombardments as early as December, the 2nd Otago limbers were caught at the transport-head at Wattle Dump. Twenty 5.9-in. shells were hurled at the dump in a few minutes, and in addition to other casualties in men and animals, Otago lost 3 company-quartermaster-sergeants of whom 1 was killed and 2 wounded.

From The "

OFFICIAL HISTORY OF THE NEW ZEALAND ENGINEERS DURING THE GREAT WAR 1914-1919."

The Light Railway and tramway systems were steadily creeping forward all the time. Sidings were put in by the sappers at Wattle and Crucifix Dumps, and material commenced to come forward, though never in sufficient quantity. Concentration of traffic round these dumps was very soon marked by the enemy, who shelled them heavily and repeatedly... Anything brought forward by them was drawn from a large main dump on the Menin Road at Birr Cross Roads, through which ran the Light Railway from Ypres which ultimately served Wattle and Crucifix Dumps.

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It must be somewhere around J 7 B & D and J 8 A & C.

It appears in a number of the war diaries, but none give a map location.

1st Battn NZRB states on 15th Jan 1918 “…In support line, carrying ammunition from WATTLE DUMP to LA BUTTE and Canadian Tunnelling Coy.”

3rd Battn NZRB 4th Dec 1917 “…carrying from RE Dump “Wattle” to Crucifix.” Latter entries simply refer to it as “wattle dump”, but interesting that the first entry lists it as RE Dump and then Wattle in speech marks.

Other NZ War Diaries also refer to it, with no location, and none of the attached maps have it marked on them.

Roger

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Although not actually shown on any map, the N and M Press DVD says that Crucifix Dump is at J.4.c.0.0. N/T of Wattle.

Roger

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  • 6 years later...

My father-in -law, Robert Sinclair Hamilton (Official Number 55745, born at Riversdale, New Zealand January 28,1897) was in the 2nd Battalion Otago Infantry Regiment, NZ Expeditionary Force.

   12/12/17 - He was Wounded in Action at Wattle Dump,Ypres, Belgium. He had a fractured fibula, right leg . An inch of bone was blown away. He also had  a flesh wound on the thigh. His Mate Bill Patterson was killed.

He said to his son Ian “ I was wounded at Pachendale. (age 21) That morning I was on ‘Rations’.  I was at Wattle Dump waiting for the wagon. The enemy shelled the dump. Three of the four QM/Sgt were killed. I was helped by a mate and carried to the marquee of the Canadian Forward Hospital. Then I was taken to another marquee, then travelled by the hospital train, then back to the UK by boat, then 2 months at Bethnal Green Hospital, London.

He also said this to his son Ian about the trenches “When sleeping- If one turned over everyone else had to turn over. The walk between the trenches and Wattle Dump was via Duck Walks, planks on poles with mud either side.”

 

This is an interesting documentary that relates to the events at this time, mainly from an Australian viewpoint. It was done by Richard Fidler of the Australian Broadcasting Company.

'Armistice: The Shattered Village' with the ABC listen app
http://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/conversations/armistice-the-shattered-village/10462358

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  • 2 years later...

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