MIC Arrival in F/F Dates

[Terry]

I have asked this question elsewhere, but perhaps someone on this forum might be able to help. I have a 1914 Star trio to a private in the 19th Hussars. His MIC indicates that he landed on the continent on 9 August,1914. I am aware that the majority of the BEF landed between 12-17 August, so would I be safe in assuming that this man was with a regimental advance party?

Do any other readers have groups with an arrival date on or before 9 August?

Finally, Gould's book on British unit locations states that the 19th Hussars landed in France on 31 August (less C Sqn which arrived in mid-Sept); this does not match up with Ascoli's book "The Mons Star" which states that "A" Sqn was in action on the 25th. Again, my man must have been with "A" or "B" Sqns. His MIC does not indicate, however, the award of a clasp.

[charlesmessenger]

19th Hussars provided the divisional cavalry suadrons for the 4th, 5th, and 6th Divisions. Since the latter two divs did not cross to France until late August 1914, it is safe to asssume that your man was with B Sqn, which was with 4 Div.

Charles M

[Terry]

Hi Charles,

Wasn't the 4th Division, along with the 6th, held back? I thought that the 5th Div, part of II Corps, was the first to go to France.

Terry

[Greenwoodman]

Dates from Becke's Order of Battle of Divisions.

5th Division (A Sqn 19 Hsrs) Advance Party left the Curragh 7th Aug, arr Havre 13th Aug. Division arrived Havre 17th Aug .

4th Division (B Sqh 19 Hsrs) Division crossed to France 22nd Aug

6th Division (C Sqn 19 Hsrs) 9th Sept. First units disembarked St Nazaire.

Considering that A Sqn 19 Hsrs moved to 2nd Cav Bde 25th Aug, it may well be that the connection was fluid prior to the 5th Division's transfer to France, and that elements of 19th Hsrs made their way to France in advance to await their Division?

[charlesmessenger]

Terry

I stand corrected. He must have therefore been with A Sqn.

Charles M

[Stuart Brown]

Do any other readers have groups with an arrival date on or before 9 August?

Terry,

MIC for a Cpl in 2 Notts & Derby states:

Disembarkation 08/09/1914

[Tom Tulloch-Marshall]

Terry - you have to be careful about how much store you put on the absolute accuracy of "qualification" or disembarkation dates on mic's and Star medal rolls. Sometimes it is the actual disembarkation date, sometimes the embarkation date (very common), and sometimes it even appears to be the date upon which the unit received orders to move to the port of embarkation, maybe one or two days before embarkation took place.

To save anyboby in sniper's alley asking for an ACI, AO, or similar, to back that up - I dont know of one - I simply pass you that advice on the basis of experience. My preference is to treat the recorded qualification date as a "useful indicator", and if the matter is greatly important for some reason, then look at the war diaries. If your man was in an "advance guard", at that stage of the war, then I'd be quite amazed if they werent mentioned in the 19th Hussars and / or Brigade diaries. At the very least a note of "rejoined" should appear for the officer commanding the a-guard.

regards - Tom

[Terry]

Thanks everyone. Obviously my chances of ever finding out anything 100% definite about my medal recipient are slim. As he was a private soldier, not an officer or sr NCO, most of his career will probably remain a mystery to me. I have been somewhat spoiled by having been a collector of CEF groups, with the files available from the Archives in Ottawa.

All that can be said is that he landed in France early; was quite possibly in "A" Sqn., attached to the 5th Division, II Corps; and again, probably took part in the early fighting at Mons and Le Cateau. As I mentioned, his Medal Index Card gives no indication of a clasp ever having been issued, but perhaps he never applied.