Medal Roll Entry

[Guest Simon Bull]

My wife has looked at all of the entries in the Medal Rolls relating men named Wagner (her maiden name), as part of a family reconstruction exercise.

One of the cards relates to a Francis D. Wagner.

It is firmly and heavily stamped at the top "1914". He received the Victory and War Medals and appears to have been in the Royal Irish Fusiliers. His qualifying date is recorded as 22/8/14. He was later discharged with a Silver War Badge.

However, the entry that interests us and which we hope an expert will be able to explain reads as follows

"Clasp and roses issued IV5326@6/6/21. Clasp/1/3358."

What was a "clasp and roses"?

Simon Bull

[Chris_Baker]

It is the dated bar Aug 5 - Nov 22 1914 - that is attached to the ribbon of a 1914 Star. It siginified that the man had seen action and been under fire between those dates. This meant that Francis also qualified as an Old Contemptible.

[Terry_Reeves]

Simon the clasp is the 5th August-22nd N0v 1914 bar for the 1914 Star. This indicates he was an original member of the BEF "who had actually served under the fire of the enemy in France or Belgium" between the dates mentioned above. In short he was an Old Contemptible. The small silver rose was intended to be worn on the medal ribbon whilst in civilian clothes or in undress uniform. It is not unusual to see these attached to the main medal ribbon though.

Terry Reeves

[matthew_family_research]

Hi, I already knew about 'Clasp and Roses', but was wondering if anyone knows what exactly the jargon IS after the record of entitlement to it?

The numbers seem to be in a particular format...

[Guest Simon Bull]

Thanks (fom me and wife) for the very helpful replies. The Forum never fails!

Simon Bull

[Tom Tulloch-Marshall]

Hi, I already knew about 'Clasp and Roses', but was wondering if anyone knows what exactly the jargon IS after the record of entitlement to it?

The numbers seem to be in a particular format...

Matthew Family-Research > there's dedication for you, changing your name by deed poll to reflect your interests in life ! (sorry - the sun has finally overwhelmed me .... but anyway it's a refreshing change from the nom d'emprunt spat going on elsewhere !)

The "IV" section of the code against the Star roll reference means that the Bar was issued under cover of Issue Voucher #5326 of June 6th 1921.

Much of the scribbling on mic's doesnt seem to mean anything in particular and probably refers to some voucher / roll / index entry system which was being used by any particular medal record office at a given time - apart from the codes which can be taken to give a date of issue, return of medals to the War Office, etc, the rest appears to be (in practical terms) fairly meaningless.

regards - Tom

[Guest Ian Bowbrick]

And if you are a mischivous person with the odd moment to spare at the PRO ask one of the staff what soem of the scribbling means - their answers are always good for a laugh

Ian