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16 Batt The Canadian Scottish


Rodger

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Hi Rodger and welcome to the forum.

If you don't mind me asking, what's your connection to the 16th?

My Great-Uncle served in the 16th, see my signature below.

Take care,

Neil

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Hi Neil, thanks for the welcome, I do not have any ties to the 16th, just a collector of military medals and books and such.My Grandfather served with the 29th Tobins Tigers Vancouver Reg and with the Home Guard in the WW2.

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Great Rodger,

You'll find quite a vibrant CEF 'Subculture' here on the Forum with quite a few members from B.C.

Enjoy,

Neil

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I have a bit of an interest in the 16th as Private Milne VC was born about a 5 minute walk from where I live - I wouldnt mind a scan of anything in their about him. Their is a small stret named after him but I am not sure of the exact location of the house he grew up in as the streets their have changed.

Cheers

Alistair

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Great Rodger,

You'll find quite a vibrant CEF 'Subculture' here on the Forum with quite a few members from B.C.

Enjoy,

Neil

Well, I guess I'm part of it now! Seems a pity we don't have a forum in Canada devoted to all this...Deas Gu Cath.

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I have a bit of an interest in the 16th as Private Milne VC was born about a 5 minute walk from where I live - I wouldnt mind a scan of anything in their about him. Their is a small stret named after him but I am not sure of the exact location of the house he grew up in as the streets their have changed.

Cheers

Alistair

Heres the information you requested Alistair:

post-8542-1130379264.jpg

Rodger

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I have some basic info on my great uncle Joe Buchanan, who joined the Canadian infantry in Jan 1918 and supposedly served with the Seaforth (or Seaford?) Scottish 16th Btn. Same thing?

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the following Order of Battle as of November 1918 should provide some perspective regarding the various battalions. I have bolded the two divisions of interest to you.

Borden Battery

===============================================

ORDER OF BATTLE:

THE CANADIAN CORPS AND OTHER CANADIAN FORMATIONS IN THE FIELD NOVEMBER 1918

Sources: Marching to Armageddon (1989), Morton and Granatstein

CEF Study Group input from 15 October - 11 November 2004

1st Canadian Division

Artillery: 1st Brigade, C.F.A. 2nd Brigade, C.F.A.

1st Field Battery 5th Field Battery

3rd Field Battery 6th Field Battery

4th Field Battery 7th Field Battery

2nd Howitzer Battery 48th Howitzer Battery

1st Division Ammunition Column

Engineers: 1st Brigade, C. E.

1st Battalion

2nd Battalion

3rd Battalion

1st Division Signal Company

Infantry: 1st Infantry Brigade

1st (Western Ontario) Battalion

2nd (Eastern Ontario) Battalion

3rd (Toronto Regiment) Battalion

4th (Central Ontario) Battalion

1st Trench Mortar Battery

2nd Infantry Brigade

5th (Western Cavalry)

Battalion 7th (1st British Columbia Regiment)

Battalion 8th (90th Rifles)

Battalion 10th (Western Canadians) Battalion

2nd Trench Mortar Battery

3rd Infantry Brigade

13th (Royal Highlanders of Canada) Battalion

14th (Royal Montreal Regiment) Battalion

15th (48th Highlanders of Canada) Battalion

16th (The Canadian Scottish) Battalion

3rd Trench Mortar Battery

Machine Gun Corps:

1st Battalion, C.M.G.C.

Army Service Corps:

1st Divisional Train, C.A.S.C.

Army Medical Corps:

1st, 2nd, 3rd Field Ambulances, C.A.M.C.

Army Medical Corps:

1st, 2nd, 3rd Field Ambulances, C.A.M.C.

1st Canadian Sanitary Section

1st Canadian Mobile Veterinary Section

Attached:

V/1st Canadian Heavy Trench Mortar Battery, RA

X/1st Canadian Trench Mortar Battery, RA

Y/1st Canadian Trench Mortar Battery, RA

1st Pontoon Bridging Transport Unit

==================================

2nd Canadian Division

Artillery: 5th Brigade, C.F.A. 6th Brigade, C.F.A.

17th Field Battery 15th Field Battery

18th Field Battery 16th Field Battery

20th Field Battery 25th Field Battery

23rd Howitzer Battery 22nd Howitzer Battery

2nd Division Ammunition Column

Engineers: 2nd Brigade, C.E.

4th Battalion

5th Battalion

6th Battalion

2nd Division Signal Company

Infantry: 4th Infantry Brigade

18th (Western Ontario) Battalion

19th (Central Ontario) Battalion

20th (Central Ontario) Battalion

21st (Eastern Ontario) Battalion

4th Trench Mortar Battery

5th Infantry Brigade

22nd (French Canadian) Battalion

24th (Victoria Rifles of Canada) Battalion

25th (Nova Scotia Rifles) Battalion

26th (New Brunswick) Battalion

5th Trench Mortar Battery

6th Infantry Brigade

27th (City of Winnipeg Battalion)

28th (Northwest) Battalion

29th (Vancouver) Battalion

31st (Alberta) Battalion

6th Trench Mortar Battery

Machine Gun Corps:

2nd Battalion, C.M.G.C.

Army Service Corps:

2nd Divisional Train, C.A.S.C.

Army Medical Corps:

4th, 5th, 6th Field Ambulances, C.A.M.C.

2nd Canadian Sanitary Section

2nd Canadian Mobile Veterinary Section

Attached:

V/2nd Canadian Heavy Trench Mortar Battery, RA

X/2nd Canadian Trench Mortar Battery, RA

Y/2nd Canadian Trench Mortar Battery, RA

2nd Pontoon Bridging Transport Unit

==================================

3rd Canadian Division

Artillery: 9th Brigade, C.F.A. 10th Brigade, C.F.A.

31st Field Battery 38th Field Battery

33rd Field Battery 39th Field Battery

45th Field Battery 40th Field Battery

36th Howitzer Battery 35th Howitzer Battery

3rd Division Ammunition Column

Engineers: 3rd Brigade, C.E.

7th Battalion

8th Battalion

9th Battalion

3rd Division Signal Company

Infantry: 7th Infantry Brigade

The Royal Canadian Regiment

Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry

42nd (Royal Highlanders of Canada) Battalion

49th (Edmonton Regiment) Battalion

7th Trench Mortar Battery

8th Infantry Brigade

1st Canadian Mounted Rifles Battalion

2nd Canadian Mounted Rifles Battalion

4th Canadian Mounted Rifles Battalion

5th Canadian Mounted Rifles Battalion

8th Trench Mortar Battery

9th Infantry Brigade

43rd (Cameron Highlanders of Canada)

Battalion 52nd (New Ontario)

Battalion 58th (Central Ontario)

Battalion 60th (Victoria Rifles of Canada) Battalion (replaced, April 1917, by 116th [Central Ontario] Battalion)

9th Trench Mortar Battery

Machine Gun Corps:

3rd Battalion, C.M.G.C.

Army Service Corps:

3rd Divisional Train, C.A.S.C.

Army Medical Corps:

8th, 9th, 10th Field Ambulances, C.A.M.C.

3rd Canadian Sanitary Section

3rd Canadian Mobile Veterinary Section

Attached:

V/3rd Canadian Heavy Trench Mortar Battery, RA

X/3rd Canadian Trench Mortar Battery, RA

Y/3rd Canadian Trench Mortar Battery, RA

3rd Pontoon Bridging Transport Unit

==================================

4th Canadian Division

Artillery: 3rd Brigade, C.F.A. 4th Brigade, C.F.A.

10th Field Battery 13th Field Battery

11th Field Battery 19th Field Battery

12th Field Battery 27th Field Battery

9th Howitzer Battery 21st Howitzer Battery

4th Division Ammunition Column

Engineers: 4th Brigade, C.E.

10th Battalion

11th Battalion

12th Battalion

4th Division Signal Company

Infantry: 10th Infantry Brigade

44th (Manitoba) Battalion (re-designated "New Brunswick", August 1918)

46th (South Saskatchewan) Battalion

47th (British Columbia) Battalion (re-designated "Western Ontario", February 1918)

50th (Calgary) Battalion

10th Trench Mortar Battery

11th Infantry Brigade

54th (Kootenay) Battalion (re-designated "Central Ontario", August 1917)

75th (Mississauga) Battalion

87th (Canadian Grenadier Guards) Battalion

102nd (North British Columbians) Battalion (re-designated "Central Ontario", August 1917)

11th Trench Mortar Battery

12th Infantry Brigade

38th (Ottawa) Battalion

72nd (Seaforth Highlanders of Canada) Battalion

73rd (Royal Highlanders of Canada) Battalion (replaced by 85th [NS Highlanders] Battalion, April 1917)

78th (Winnipeg Grenadiers) Battalion

Machine Gun Corps:

4th Battalion, C.M.G.C.

Army Service Corps:

4th Divisional Train, C.A.S.C.

Army Medical Corps:

11th, 12th, 13th Field Ambulances, C.A.M.C.

4th Canadian Sanitary Section

4th Canadian Mobile Veterinary Section

Attached:

V/4th Canadian Heavy Trench Mortar Battery, RA

X/4th Canadian Trench Mortar Battery, RA

Y/4th Canadian Trench Mortar Battery, RA

4th Pontoon Bridging Transport Unit

==================================

Canadian Corps Troops

Cavalry: Canadian Light Horse

Artillery: Corps Heavy Artillery

1st Brigade, C.G.A. 2nd Brigade, C.G.A.

1st Siege Battery 1st Heavy Battery

3rd Siege Battery 2nd Heavy Battery

7th Siege Battery 2nd Siege Battery

9th Siege Battery 4th Siege Battery

5th Siege Battery

6th Siege Battery

3rd Brigade, C.G.A. 5th Divisional Artillery

8th Siege Battery 13th Brigade, C.F.A.

10th Siege Battery 52nd Field Battery

11th Siege Battery 53rd Field Battery

12th Siege Battery 55th Field Battery

51st Howitzer Battery

14th Brigade, C.F.A.

60th Field Battery

61st Field Battery

66th Field Battery

58th Howitzer Battery

5th Division Ammunition Column

Engineers: Anti-Aircraft Searchlight Company

3rd Tunnelling Company

Corps Survey Company

1st Tramways Company

2nd Tramways Company

Corps Signal Company

Machine Gun Corps: 1st Motor Machine Gun Brigade, C.M.G.C.

2nd Motor Machine Gun Brigade, C.M.G.C.

Army Service Troops Motor Transport Company C.A.S.C.

Corps: 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th Division Motor Transport Companies, C.A.S.C

5th Divisional Artillery Motor Transport Detachment

Engineers Motor Transport Company, C.A.S.C.

Motor Machine Gun Motor Transport Company, C.A.S.C.

5th Divisional Train Detachment, C.A.S.C.

Army Medical 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 6th, 7th, 8th General Hospitals, C.A.M.C.

Corps: 2nd, 3rd, 7th, 6th, 9th, 10th Stationary Hospitals, C.A.M.C.

1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th Forestry Corps Hospitals

1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th Casualty Clearing Stations. C.A.M.C.

14th Field Ambulance, C.A.WC.

==================================

Miscellaneous Units

Canadian Cyclist Battalion

Corps Reinforcement Camp

Corps Schools

Corps Signal Company

Canadian Tunnelling Companies, CE

Canadian Ordinance Corps

Canadian Cavalry Brigade

Cavalry: Royal Canadian Dragoons

Lord Strathcona's Horse (Royal Canadians)

Fort Garry Horse

R.N.W.M.P. Squadron

Artillery: Royal Canadian Horse Artillery Brigade

Army Medical Corps: 7th (Cavalry) Field Ambulance, C.A.M.C.

CASC

1st, 2nd, and 3rd Field Bakery units

Canadian Railway Troops

HQ CRT (France)

1-14th Battalions Canadian Railway Troops

1-4 Section Skilled Railway Employees CRT

Depot CRT

Railway Guards CRT

Canadian Overseas Railway Construction Corps

==================================

Army Troops (Attached to the British Expeditionary Force)

Artillery: 8th Army Brigade, C.F.A.

24th Field Battery

30th Field Battery

32nd Field Battery

43rd Howitzer Battery

8th Army Brigade Ammunition Column

"E" Anti-Aircraft Battery

Engineers: 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th Army Troops Companies

Railway Troops: Canadian Overseas Railway Construction Corps (1st to 13th Battalions)

Forestry Corps: 58 companies, C.F.C.

HQ Directorate of Timber Operations (France) CFC

HQ No. 1 District

No. 1 District Workshop

Nos 20,30,31,41,42,43,44,54 Companies CFC

HQ No. 2 District

No. 2 District Workshop

Nos 14,19,23,24,32,34 Companies CFC

Jura Group HQ

HQ No. 4 District

Nos 27,55,78,79,80 Cos.

HQ No. 5 District

No. 5 District Workshop

No. 2 Construction Company CFC

Nos 21,22,39,40,47,50,32,57,58,70 Companies CFC

HQ No. 6 District

Nos 28,51,56,69,77 Companies CFC

HQ Bordeux Group

HQ No. 9 District

No. 9 District Workshop

Nos 1,2,9,25,26,29,35,37 Cos CFC

HQ Marne Group

HQ No. 10 District

Nos 31,33,70 Cos CFC

HQ No. 11 District

Nos 7,8,10,11,12,13,75 Cos CFC

HQ No. 12 District

No. 12 District Workshop

Nos 15,45,46,48,49,53,59,60,71,72,73,74 Cos CFC

HQ Central Group

Paris Detachment CFC

Forestry Hospitals (3)- One Full Hospital, Two Detention Hospitals

Technical Warehouse, CFC, Le Havre

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Hi Busybee and welcome to the forum,

The Seaforth Highlanders were a Canadian militia regiment pre World War I which was later combined with other highland regiments to form the 16th Battalion The Canadian Scottish.

So it is quite possible your uncle joined the Seaforths in 1914 and ended up the 16th Battalion.

Hope this makes sense!

Neil

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Thanks Neil! That does make sense, but could it be the other way around since he didn't join up until Jan 1918? He joined the Canadian Scottish and ended up with a group of mainly Seafoth Highlanders?

Karen

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It is possible, your best bet is to get his full service record from Ottawa.

Two battalions from January to November is certainly possible.

The 16th were already overseas so I don't think he would have joined the 16th.

He may have transferred between the two battalions once overseas.

Have you checked his attestation papers online?

Attestation Paper Search

Happy hunting!

Neil

Edited by Neil Burns
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Neil: Found his attestation paper (thanks for the link), but it doesn't contain much more information. No mention of the Canadian Scottish or the Seaforth Highlanders. Just First Depot Battalion, Manitoba Regiment. It does indicate that he was not a present member of the active militia or previous member of the military or navy. I pointed the discrepencies out to my mom (16th Btn is the Canadian Scottish, not Seaforth Highlanders) and she is going to dig up the papers and letters she has. Apparently most of his letters were about how to get cigarettes, so may not be too helpful! :lol: I need to go over to the CEF study group site and dig around there a bit. Borden Battery has been so kind, the least I can do is take his advice!

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Is the 16th (or at least part of it) not also known as the Manitoba Scottish? I am sure I have seen Milne VC listed as Manitoba Scottish.

Alistair

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The Battalion was known as the Manitoba Regiment for reasons I believe linked to the Canadian militia (?).

It's at this point, I just pray Dwight or Peter jump in and save me.....

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Busy Bee I show your uncle #2129064 as enlisting at the 1st Depot BN Man. Regt on 9-1-18 and Regimental Record with the !6th as France, 20-9-18 to 19-1-19 then SOS, 3-4-19, hope this helps, Rodger

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Hello BusyBee

From the Attestation Papers you really need take the next step and access his full military file. If you send me a Private Message [PM] I can direct you to a couple people from Ottawa [National Capital and with physical access to the Archives.

Usually about $40-50 Cdn will get you everything.

Then you can start working your way through the war diaries to establish what his daily activities and experiences would likely have been.

Regards

Borden Battery

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Borden Battery:

I'm waiting for my (disorganized) mother to let me know what she has on file. She and my aunt have done a lot of family research and I know she's been to the archives in Ottawa. I also have a cousin in Ottawa and figured I'd bug him next if it turns out she doesn't have all the info. If neither avenue pans out, I'll PM you for the info!

Karen

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