Rodger Posted 24 October , 2005 Share Posted 24 October , 2005 Have a copy of this units history, if you need any info I will try to help, Rodger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Burns Posted 24 October , 2005 Share Posted 24 October , 2005 Hi Rodger and welcome to the forum. If you don't mind me asking, what's your connection to the 16th? My Great-Uncle served in the 16th, see my signature below. Take care, Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodger Posted 24 October , 2005 Author Share Posted 24 October , 2005 Hi Neil, thanks for the welcome, I do not have any ties to the 16th, just a collector of military medals and books and such.My Grandfather served with the 29th Tobins Tigers Vancouver Reg and with the Home Guard in the WW2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Burns Posted 25 October , 2005 Share Posted 25 October , 2005 Great Rodger, You'll find quite a vibrant CEF 'Subculture' here on the Forum with quite a few members from B.C. Enjoy, Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AB64 Posted 25 October , 2005 Share Posted 25 October , 2005 I have a bit of an interest in the 16th as Private Milne VC was born about a 5 minute walk from where I live - I wouldnt mind a scan of anything in their about him. Their is a small stret named after him but I am not sure of the exact location of the house he grew up in as the streets their have changed. Cheers Alistair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ndCMR Posted 25 October , 2005 Share Posted 25 October , 2005 Great Rodger, You'll find quite a vibrant CEF 'Subculture' here on the Forum with quite a few members from B.C. Enjoy, Neil Well, I guess I'm part of it now! Seems a pity we don't have a forum in Canada devoted to all this...Deas Gu Cath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Burns Posted 25 October , 2005 Share Posted 25 October , 2005 CEF Study Group If you don't object to it being hosted in New Jersey......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodger Posted 27 October , 2005 Author Share Posted 27 October , 2005 I have a bit of an interest in the 16th as Private Milne VC was born about a 5 minute walk from where I live - I wouldnt mind a scan of anything in their about him. Their is a small stret named after him but I am not sure of the exact location of the house he grew up in as the streets their have changed. Cheers Alistair Heres the information you requested Alistair: Rodger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodger Posted 27 October , 2005 Author Share Posted 27 October , 2005 Second Pic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodger Posted 27 October , 2005 Author Share Posted 27 October , 2005 Third Pic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busybee Posted 27 October , 2005 Share Posted 27 October , 2005 I have some basic info on my great uncle Joe Buchanan, who joined the Canadian infantry in Jan 1918 and supposedly served with the Seaforth (or Seaford?) Scottish 16th Btn. Same thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borden Battery Posted 27 October , 2005 Share Posted 27 October , 2005 the following Order of Battle as of November 1918 should provide some perspective regarding the various battalions. I have bolded the two divisions of interest to you. Borden Battery =============================================== ORDER OF BATTLE: THE CANADIAN CORPS AND OTHER CANADIAN FORMATIONS IN THE FIELD NOVEMBER 1918 Sources: Marching to Armageddon (1989), Morton and Granatstein CEF Study Group input from 15 October - 11 November 2004 1st Canadian Division Artillery: 1st Brigade, C.F.A. 2nd Brigade, C.F.A. 1st Field Battery 5th Field Battery 3rd Field Battery 6th Field Battery 4th Field Battery 7th Field Battery 2nd Howitzer Battery 48th Howitzer Battery 1st Division Ammunition Column Engineers: 1st Brigade, C. E. 1st Battalion 2nd Battalion 3rd Battalion 1st Division Signal Company Infantry: 1st Infantry Brigade 1st (Western Ontario) Battalion 2nd (Eastern Ontario) Battalion 3rd (Toronto Regiment) Battalion 4th (Central Ontario) Battalion 1st Trench Mortar Battery 2nd Infantry Brigade 5th (Western Cavalry) Battalion 7th (1st British Columbia Regiment) Battalion 8th (90th Rifles) Battalion 10th (Western Canadians) Battalion 2nd Trench Mortar Battery 3rd Infantry Brigade 13th (Royal Highlanders of Canada) Battalion 14th (Royal Montreal Regiment) Battalion 15th (48th Highlanders of Canada) Battalion 16th (The Canadian Scottish) Battalion 3rd Trench Mortar Battery Machine Gun Corps: 1st Battalion, C.M.G.C. Army Service Corps: 1st Divisional Train, C.A.S.C. Army Medical Corps: 1st, 2nd, 3rd Field Ambulances, C.A.M.C. Army Medical Corps: 1st, 2nd, 3rd Field Ambulances, C.A.M.C. 1st Canadian Sanitary Section 1st Canadian Mobile Veterinary Section Attached: V/1st Canadian Heavy Trench Mortar Battery, RA X/1st Canadian Trench Mortar Battery, RA Y/1st Canadian Trench Mortar Battery, RA 1st Pontoon Bridging Transport Unit ================================== 2nd Canadian Division Artillery: 5th Brigade, C.F.A. 6th Brigade, C.F.A. 17th Field Battery 15th Field Battery 18th Field Battery 16th Field Battery 20th Field Battery 25th Field Battery 23rd Howitzer Battery 22nd Howitzer Battery 2nd Division Ammunition Column Engineers: 2nd Brigade, C.E. 4th Battalion 5th Battalion 6th Battalion 2nd Division Signal Company Infantry: 4th Infantry Brigade 18th (Western Ontario) Battalion 19th (Central Ontario) Battalion 20th (Central Ontario) Battalion 21st (Eastern Ontario) Battalion 4th Trench Mortar Battery 5th Infantry Brigade 22nd (French Canadian) Battalion 24th (Victoria Rifles of Canada) Battalion 25th (Nova Scotia Rifles) Battalion 26th (New Brunswick) Battalion 5th Trench Mortar Battery 6th Infantry Brigade 27th (City of Winnipeg Battalion) 28th (Northwest) Battalion 29th (Vancouver) Battalion 31st (Alberta) Battalion 6th Trench Mortar Battery Machine Gun Corps: 2nd Battalion, C.M.G.C. Army Service Corps: 2nd Divisional Train, C.A.S.C. Army Medical Corps: 4th, 5th, 6th Field Ambulances, C.A.M.C. 2nd Canadian Sanitary Section 2nd Canadian Mobile Veterinary Section Attached: V/2nd Canadian Heavy Trench Mortar Battery, RA X/2nd Canadian Trench Mortar Battery, RA Y/2nd Canadian Trench Mortar Battery, RA 2nd Pontoon Bridging Transport Unit ================================== 3rd Canadian Division Artillery: 9th Brigade, C.F.A. 10th Brigade, C.F.A. 31st Field Battery 38th Field Battery 33rd Field Battery 39th Field Battery 45th Field Battery 40th Field Battery 36th Howitzer Battery 35th Howitzer Battery 3rd Division Ammunition Column Engineers: 3rd Brigade, C.E. 7th Battalion 8th Battalion 9th Battalion 3rd Division Signal Company Infantry: 7th Infantry Brigade The Royal Canadian Regiment Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry 42nd (Royal Highlanders of Canada) Battalion 49th (Edmonton Regiment) Battalion 7th Trench Mortar Battery 8th Infantry Brigade 1st Canadian Mounted Rifles Battalion 2nd Canadian Mounted Rifles Battalion 4th Canadian Mounted Rifles Battalion 5th Canadian Mounted Rifles Battalion 8th Trench Mortar Battery 9th Infantry Brigade 43rd (Cameron Highlanders of Canada) Battalion 52nd (New Ontario) Battalion 58th (Central Ontario) Battalion 60th (Victoria Rifles of Canada) Battalion (replaced, April 1917, by 116th [Central Ontario] Battalion) 9th Trench Mortar Battery Machine Gun Corps: 3rd Battalion, C.M.G.C. Army Service Corps: 3rd Divisional Train, C.A.S.C. Army Medical Corps: 8th, 9th, 10th Field Ambulances, C.A.M.C. 3rd Canadian Sanitary Section 3rd Canadian Mobile Veterinary Section Attached: V/3rd Canadian Heavy Trench Mortar Battery, RA X/3rd Canadian Trench Mortar Battery, RA Y/3rd Canadian Trench Mortar Battery, RA 3rd Pontoon Bridging Transport Unit ================================== 4th Canadian Division Artillery: 3rd Brigade, C.F.A. 4th Brigade, C.F.A. 10th Field Battery 13th Field Battery 11th Field Battery 19th Field Battery 12th Field Battery 27th Field Battery 9th Howitzer Battery 21st Howitzer Battery 4th Division Ammunition Column Engineers: 4th Brigade, C.E. 10th Battalion 11th Battalion 12th Battalion 4th Division Signal Company Infantry: 10th Infantry Brigade 44th (Manitoba) Battalion (re-designated "New Brunswick", August 1918) 46th (South Saskatchewan) Battalion 47th (British Columbia) Battalion (re-designated "Western Ontario", February 1918) 50th (Calgary) Battalion 10th Trench Mortar Battery 11th Infantry Brigade 54th (Kootenay) Battalion (re-designated "Central Ontario", August 1917) 75th (Mississauga) Battalion 87th (Canadian Grenadier Guards) Battalion 102nd (North British Columbians) Battalion (re-designated "Central Ontario", August 1917) 11th Trench Mortar Battery 12th Infantry Brigade 38th (Ottawa) Battalion 72nd (Seaforth Highlanders of Canada) Battalion 73rd (Royal Highlanders of Canada) Battalion (replaced by 85th [NS Highlanders] Battalion, April 1917) 78th (Winnipeg Grenadiers) Battalion Machine Gun Corps: 4th Battalion, C.M.G.C. Army Service Corps: 4th Divisional Train, C.A.S.C. Army Medical Corps: 11th, 12th, 13th Field Ambulances, C.A.M.C. 4th Canadian Sanitary Section 4th Canadian Mobile Veterinary Section Attached: V/4th Canadian Heavy Trench Mortar Battery, RA X/4th Canadian Trench Mortar Battery, RA Y/4th Canadian Trench Mortar Battery, RA 4th Pontoon Bridging Transport Unit ================================== Canadian Corps Troops Cavalry: Canadian Light Horse Artillery: Corps Heavy Artillery 1st Brigade, C.G.A. 2nd Brigade, C.G.A. 1st Siege Battery 1st Heavy Battery 3rd Siege Battery 2nd Heavy Battery 7th Siege Battery 2nd Siege Battery 9th Siege Battery 4th Siege Battery 5th Siege Battery 6th Siege Battery 3rd Brigade, C.G.A. 5th Divisional Artillery 8th Siege Battery 13th Brigade, C.F.A. 10th Siege Battery 52nd Field Battery 11th Siege Battery 53rd Field Battery 12th Siege Battery 55th Field Battery 51st Howitzer Battery 14th Brigade, C.F.A. 60th Field Battery 61st Field Battery 66th Field Battery 58th Howitzer Battery 5th Division Ammunition Column Engineers: Anti-Aircraft Searchlight Company 3rd Tunnelling Company Corps Survey Company 1st Tramways Company 2nd Tramways Company Corps Signal Company Machine Gun Corps: 1st Motor Machine Gun Brigade, C.M.G.C. 2nd Motor Machine Gun Brigade, C.M.G.C. Army Service Troops Motor Transport Company C.A.S.C. Corps: 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th Division Motor Transport Companies, C.A.S.C 5th Divisional Artillery Motor Transport Detachment Engineers Motor Transport Company, C.A.S.C. Motor Machine Gun Motor Transport Company, C.A.S.C. 5th Divisional Train Detachment, C.A.S.C. Army Medical 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 6th, 7th, 8th General Hospitals, C.A.M.C. Corps: 2nd, 3rd, 7th, 6th, 9th, 10th Stationary Hospitals, C.A.M.C. 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th Forestry Corps Hospitals 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th Casualty Clearing Stations. C.A.M.C. 14th Field Ambulance, C.A.WC. ================================== Miscellaneous Units Canadian Cyclist Battalion Corps Reinforcement Camp Corps Schools Corps Signal Company Canadian Tunnelling Companies, CE Canadian Ordinance Corps Canadian Cavalry Brigade Cavalry: Royal Canadian Dragoons Lord Strathcona's Horse (Royal Canadians) Fort Garry Horse R.N.W.M.P. Squadron Artillery: Royal Canadian Horse Artillery Brigade Army Medical Corps: 7th (Cavalry) Field Ambulance, C.A.M.C. CASC 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Field Bakery units Canadian Railway Troops HQ CRT (France) 1-14th Battalions Canadian Railway Troops 1-4 Section Skilled Railway Employees CRT Depot CRT Railway Guards CRT Canadian Overseas Railway Construction Corps ================================== Army Troops (Attached to the British Expeditionary Force) Artillery: 8th Army Brigade, C.F.A. 24th Field Battery 30th Field Battery 32nd Field Battery 43rd Howitzer Battery 8th Army Brigade Ammunition Column "E" Anti-Aircraft Battery Engineers: 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th Army Troops Companies Railway Troops: Canadian Overseas Railway Construction Corps (1st to 13th Battalions) Forestry Corps: 58 companies, C.F.C. HQ Directorate of Timber Operations (France) CFC HQ No. 1 District No. 1 District Workshop Nos 20,30,31,41,42,43,44,54 Companies CFC HQ No. 2 District No. 2 District Workshop Nos 14,19,23,24,32,34 Companies CFC Jura Group HQ HQ No. 4 District Nos 27,55,78,79,80 Cos. HQ No. 5 District No. 5 District Workshop No. 2 Construction Company CFC Nos 21,22,39,40,47,50,32,57,58,70 Companies CFC HQ No. 6 District Nos 28,51,56,69,77 Companies CFC HQ Bordeux Group HQ No. 9 District No. 9 District Workshop Nos 1,2,9,25,26,29,35,37 Cos CFC HQ Marne Group HQ No. 10 District Nos 31,33,70 Cos CFC HQ No. 11 District Nos 7,8,10,11,12,13,75 Cos CFC HQ No. 12 District No. 12 District Workshop Nos 15,45,46,48,49,53,59,60,71,72,73,74 Cos CFC HQ Central Group Paris Detachment CFC Forestry Hospitals (3)- One Full Hospital, Two Detention Hospitals Technical Warehouse, CFC, Le Havre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AB64 Posted 27 October , 2005 Share Posted 27 October , 2005 Thanks for scanning that Rodger - I guess I should add the area to my list of places to visit. Thanks again AListair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busybee Posted 27 October , 2005 Share Posted 27 October , 2005 Thanks again, Borden Battery! Clearly I need to go to the CEF Study Group site. And update my signature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Burns Posted 27 October , 2005 Share Posted 27 October , 2005 Hi Busybee and welcome to the forum, The Seaforth Highlanders were a Canadian militia regiment pre World War I which was later combined with other highland regiments to form the 16th Battalion The Canadian Scottish. So it is quite possible your uncle joined the Seaforths in 1914 and ended up the 16th Battalion. Hope this makes sense! Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busybee Posted 27 October , 2005 Share Posted 27 October , 2005 Thanks Neil! That does make sense, but could it be the other way around since he didn't join up until Jan 1918? He joined the Canadian Scottish and ended up with a group of mainly Seafoth Highlanders? Karen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Burns Posted 27 October , 2005 Share Posted 27 October , 2005 (edited) It is possible, your best bet is to get his full service record from Ottawa. Two battalions from January to November is certainly possible. The 16th were already overseas so I don't think he would have joined the 16th. He may have transferred between the two battalions once overseas. Have you checked his attestation papers online? Attestation Paper Search Happy hunting! Neil Edited 27 October , 2005 by Neil Burns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busybee Posted 27 October , 2005 Share Posted 27 October , 2005 Thank you! Now I know where to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Burns Posted 27 October , 2005 Share Posted 27 October , 2005 How to Research a Meber of the CEF Here are some additional tips. Enjoy, Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busybee Posted 28 October , 2005 Share Posted 28 October , 2005 Neil: Found his attestation paper (thanks for the link), but it doesn't contain much more information. No mention of the Canadian Scottish or the Seaforth Highlanders. Just First Depot Battalion, Manitoba Regiment. It does indicate that he was not a present member of the active militia or previous member of the military or navy. I pointed the discrepencies out to my mom (16th Btn is the Canadian Scottish, not Seaforth Highlanders) and she is going to dig up the papers and letters she has. Apparently most of his letters were about how to get cigarettes, so may not be too helpful! I need to go over to the CEF study group site and dig around there a bit. Borden Battery has been so kind, the least I can do is take his advice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AB64 Posted 28 October , 2005 Share Posted 28 October , 2005 Is the 16th (or at least part of it) not also known as the Manitoba Scottish? I am sure I have seen Milne VC listed as Manitoba Scottish. Alistair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Burns Posted 28 October , 2005 Share Posted 28 October , 2005 The Battalion was known as the Manitoba Regiment for reasons I believe linked to the Canadian militia (?). It's at this point, I just pray Dwight or Peter jump in and save me..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodger Posted 28 October , 2005 Author Share Posted 28 October , 2005 Busy Bee I show your uncle #2129064 as enlisting at the 1st Depot BN Man. Regt on 9-1-18 and Regimental Record with the !6th as France, 20-9-18 to 19-1-19 then SOS, 3-4-19, hope this helps, Rodger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borden Battery Posted 29 October , 2005 Share Posted 29 October , 2005 Hello BusyBee From the Attestation Papers you really need take the next step and access his full military file. If you send me a Private Message [PM] I can direct you to a couple people from Ottawa [National Capital and with physical access to the Archives. Usually about $40-50 Cdn will get you everything. Then you can start working your way through the war diaries to establish what his daily activities and experiences would likely have been. Regards Borden Battery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busybee Posted 29 October , 2005 Share Posted 29 October , 2005 Borden Battery: I'm waiting for my (disorganized) mother to let me know what she has on file. She and my aunt have done a lot of family research and I know she's been to the archives in Ottawa. I also have a cousin in Ottawa and figured I'd bug him next if it turns out she doesn't have all the info. If neither avenue pans out, I'll PM you for the info! Karen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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