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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

never seen before - R.N.R.


Jim Strawbridge
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I have in my collection a WW1 trio to 400 D.A. H. IVATT. D.H., RNR. At auction, at present, is a 1914/5 star to 400 D.A. A.B. JOHNSON. 2 HD. RNR. Unless the star has been misimpressed (I have seen a scan of the reverse and it is ok) I cannot see how two sailors can have the same service numbers. If I recall correctly each sailor has his service detailed on a page of a register that is preprinted with the service number but has anyone else ever seen naval WW1 medals where the service number is duplicated?

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I have in my collection a WW1 trio to 400 D.A. H. IVATT. D.H., RNR. At auction, at present, is a 1914/5 star to 400 D.A. A.B. JOHNSON. 2 HD. RNR. Unless the star has been misimpressed (I have seen a scan of the reverse and it is ok) I cannot see how two sailors can have the same service numbers. If I recall correctly each sailor has his service detailed on a page of a register that is preprinted with the service number but has anyone else ever seen naval WW1 medals where the service number is duplicated?

If RNR surely they would have joined @ the RNR depot/base peculiar to them{similarly to TF Men},so I would imagine there would be some number duplication{Though usually having a Prefix denoting term of service?A.B.C.D.etc:}

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My understanding of the RNR was that although there were local depots, it was centrally administrated and the numbers were unique, it was not similar to the TF in that respect. It is not unknown for the wrong number to appear on medals or other mistakes!

Have you got the records for IVATT?

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JIM

The numbers are RNR(Trawler Section) which are unique, I have not seen any duplicates, IVATT is a Deck Hand and on the DA register. JOHNSON is a Second Hand and should be on the SA register. They did tend to keep their numbers when promoted or demoted.

Regards Charles

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Morning all, three questions to add to this thread,

1) What does the letter D stand for infront of a RNR number

2) What does a C stand for at the end of a RNR number

3) did ratings in the RNR ever change numbers in the war?

Cheers Gareth

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JIM

The numbers are RNR(Trawler Section) which are unique, I have not seen any duplicates, IVATT is a Deck Hand and on the DA register. JOHNSON is a Second Hand and should be on the SA register. They did tend to keep their numbers when promoted or demoted.

Regards Charles

I am not sure that I can agree with that statement. I have a 1914/5 star/victory pair to D.A. 297 W.L. HUNTER. 2.HD. RNR. and similar to D.A. 255 J.H. HOWELL. 2.HD. RNR. Although I agree that most 2.HDs are in the SA range some can also be found in the S.D. range too (ie S.D. 225 W. GOOD. 2.HD. RNR., S.D. 42 J. COLLINS. 2.HD. RNR and S.D.850 D. WILLIAMS. 2.HD. RNR). These, I understand, originally enlisted in the special trawler section which, later in the war, was amalgamated with the ordinary trawler section. I am assuming that special trawlers involved Q ships but I may be wrong.

Welshdoc - the C (alone) is said to denote a seaman in his third term of enrolment and D (alone) to denote a seaman in his fourth term of enrolment.

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1) What does the letter D stand for infront of a RNR number

2) What does a C stand for at the end of a RNR number

3) did ratings in the RNR ever change numbers in the war?

The "D" & "C" are prefixes denoting the period of engagement,ie "D" would be the 4th Term I believe,

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The "D" & "C" are prefixes denoting the period of engagement,ie "D" would be the 4th Term I believe,

thanks both but the infoIm ok with the D but on one of the numbers is a suffix rather than prefix, It was to a chap called Murphy 3792C ? does this mean the same ie third term. GAreth

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Gareth, It seems that the letter prefix and suffix are interchangeable ie they can go before or after the number. Generally speaking the 1914/5 star would show the letter(s) as prefixes and the victory and BWM as suffixes. But the reverse is fairly commonplace so it is not a hard and fast rule. So with your chap the 'C' could have gone before or after the number but either way it would mean that he was in his third term of enrolment. I have to say that I cannot see any reason for this interchangeability of prefix/suffix as it doesn't appear to be a change before/after a set date. Perhaps someone else on this forum has the answer.

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3) did ratings in the RNR ever change numbers in the war?

Yes, because an enlistment in the RNR was only 5 years, the service records keep track of the other numbers.

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