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Armoured Farmer

War Diaries North & South irish Horse

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Desmond7

Was he from Co. Cavan by any chance?

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auchonvillerssomme
Was he from Co. Cavan by any chance?

Co Monahan

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Desmond7

There are loads of Tilsons in Cavan .. only one I can see in Fermanagh Street, Clones, Monaghan.

Check out the Public Records Office NI Ulster Covenant website and do a search.

Des

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auchonvillerssomme
There are loads of Tilsons in Cavan .. only one I can see in Fermanagh Street, Clones, Monaghan.

Check out the Public Records Office NI Ulster Covenant website and do a search.

Des

Had a look there but its a different Tilson. Never mind, we will keep looking.

Mick

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Armoured Farmer
Hi. We are researching wifes great uncle. Cecil TilsonL/cpl. 9th Royal Irish Fusiliers 41294. previously 1301 North Irish Horse. He is a recent discovery, found a picture of him on horseback. Any info please.

Mick

Hello Mick,

I have no record of Cecil Tilson in the War Diaries, but I shall re-check. I have his numbers recorded as 1301 NIH and 41224 R Ir Fus, the National Archives Medal Index search returns him as 1301 NIH and 41274 R Ir Fus.

I shall check this on my next visit to Kew as the information in my limited database of North Irish Horsemen is nearly 5 years old in some cases.

I do have his date of entry into a theatre of war, 17th November, 1915. This would place him in F Squdron, NIH, see here: -

http://vaugh.co.uk/documents/north_irish_horse.htm

I'll let you know when I know more.

pm me if you have any further information or questions.

Armoured Farmer

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Armoured Farmer
hi trying to find any information on

7861 L/Cpl Stone James 7th (South Irish Horse) Bn., Royal Irish Regiment i no he was born in castlecomer co kilkenny Ireland any memtion in any diary would be of great help

Thanks MGB

MGB,

I don't know much about him other than he was in the Royal Irish Regiment and served in the 7th Bn. He probably came form 6th or 2nd Bn and was transfered in February 1918. See here in the Royal Irish Regiment section: -

http://southirishhorse.com/documents/history.htm

Also check here, I didn't find his name mentioned but the narrative of events for the day he died is there: -

http://southirishhorse.com/documents/7sih_...r_diaries_1.htm

All the best

Armoured Farmer

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MacM
Hello MacM,

The number you have for your grandfather in the Royal Irish Fusiliers is indeed interesting. It is one of 330 for North Irish Horse men I have recorded from the Royal Irish Fusiliers British War and Victory Medal Rolls WO 329/1686. They number from 41179 to 41600.

This roll is arranged numerically by regimental number. These men, in nearly all cases, were those transferred from 2nd North Irish Horse into 9th Royal Irish Fusiliers in September 1917. See: -

http://vaugh.co.uk/documents/north_irish_horse.htm

41179 to 41600 obviously suggests over 400 men, the shortfall is made up with men from the Service Squadron of the 6th Inniskilling Dragoons who were transferred with the North Irish Horse soldiers.

Regards

Farmer

Thanks Farmer

My apologies for the lengthy delay in replying. The numbering has had me scratching my head for some time. Here is my (at least partial) stab at an explanation. The 9th Battalion RIF diaries (courtesy of Gerry Chester) show the following new drafts of Other Ranks post-Passchendaele - 12 from base 30/8/17, 304 North Irish Horse 25/9/17, 42 on 28/9/17, 33 from reinforcement camp on 9/10/17 and 90 from reinforcement camp on 12/10/17 (including 72 North Irish Horse). That makes 481 reinforcements, presumably numbered sequentially. The highest number for NIH or Dragoons joining the 9th RIF seems to be 41645. Subtract 481 and that gets you to No 41164 - pretty close to the earliest numbered North Irish Horseman, though I note that the RIF were taking on Dragoons well before that. I hope that makes some sense. When the 2nd North Irish Horse were dismounted, my grandfather was one of those assigned to take the horses to Egypt. I think it's likely therefore that he was among the 2nd batch of 72 NIH reinforcements that joined on 12 October, having just returned from Egypt.

Cheers

MacM

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MacM
Hi. We are researching wifes great uncle. Cecil TilsonL/cpl. 9th Royal Irish Fusiliers 41294. previously 1301 North Irish Horse. He is a recent discovery, found a picture of him on horseback. Any info please.

Mick

Hi Mick

My grandfather Francis MacMahon's North Irish Horse number was 1308 - just 7 higher than Cecil's. He too was in F Squadron. They would certainly have known each other. Perhaps they met in the queue at the recruiting station! I too have a picture of him (Francis) on horseback. Let me know if you want to exchange scanned images.

Regards

MacM

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Armoured Farmer
Thanks Farmer

My apologies for the lengthy delay in replying. The numbering has had me scratching my head for some time. Here is my (at least partial) stab at an explanation. The 9th Battalion RIF diaries (courtesy of Gerry Chester) show the following new drafts of Other Ranks post-Passchendaele - 12 from base 30/8/17, 304 North Irish Horse 25/9/17, 42 on 28/9/17, 33 from reinforcement camp on 9/10/17 and 90 from reinforcement camp on 12/10/17 (including 72 North Irish Horse). That makes 481 reinforcements, presumably numbered sequentially. The highest number for NIH or Dragoons joining the 9th RIF seems to be 41645. Subtract 481 and that gets you to No 41164 - pretty close to the earliest numbered North Irish Horseman, though I note that the RIF were taking on Dragoons well before that. I hope that makes some sense. When the 2nd North Irish Horse were dismounted, my grandfather was one of those assigned to take the horses to Egypt. I think it's likely therefore that he was among the 2nd batch of 72 NIH reinforcements that joined on 12 October, having just returned from Egypt.

Cheers

MacM

MacM,

You're welcome, and thanks for the input. It makes sense to me. Thanks also to Gerry. I must confess to not having checked the NIH or 9 R Ir Fus diaries too fully. Time and the SIH being my excuse.

Cheers

Farmer

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Gerry Chester

Thank you Hugh. I visit GWF on a regular basis looking for NIH postings - didn't think to look in the Documents Section.

Incidentally, on reading the posts I notice that mention is made of photos etc. I would greatly appreciate any or all being added to my WW I pages if the posters would be so kind to make them available. See: http://www.nih.ww2site.com/nih/memorium/ww1/ww1.html

Thank you, Gerry

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Armoured Farmer
Good news for NIH enquirers. Look at the following page: -

http://www.nih.ww2site.com/nih/memorium/ww1/WarDiaries.html

See also here on this Forum: -

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...rth+irish+horse

Thanks to Gerry Chester and Phillip Tardif

New link for NIH WWI War Diaries is here: -

http://www.northirishhorse.org/memorium/ww1/WarDiaries.html

again, thanks to Gerry

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simonmazzei
I have digital photographs of all surviving WWI War Diaries for these two Regiments, and thier successor Infantry Battalions (7th South irish Horse and 9th Royal Irish Fusiliers, from Sept 1917)

Should anyone wish information from these please get in touch.

Regards

Armoured Farmer

***

Hello Armoured Farmer, I wonder if you can help me.

I have been interested in WW1, in particular the Ypres Salient, since visiting Ypres as a cadet some 30 years ago. A later visit had the same impact on my wife.

When researching our family trees we discovered that my wife’s great uncle was killed & buried in Ypres whilst serving with Princess Victoria's Royal Irish Fusiliers.

His name was James Thomas Arnell (Private). We have found his medal card and his War Grave record but these give only basic details.

He was born in the East End of London and enlisted in the Royal West Surrey Regiment (at Stratford, Essex?) Service no 67146.

At the time of his death - 25th October 1918, Killed in Action, age 19, service no. 45797 – he was serving with 9th Battalion North Irish Horse and is buried at the Harlebeke cemetery, 30km east of Ypres.

I read somewhere that the Royal West Surrey Regt. Became part of the London Regt. and that the Royal Irish Fusiliers added a divisional artillery unit from the London Regt before deployment. I don’t know if this is correct or the dates.

I have also heard a family storey that says James went AWOL and was then transferred to the North Irish Horse?

We have been back to Ypres to visit his grave and would be fascinated to know more information about him or his regiment – particularly any information on his unit’s engagements at the time of his death, just 2 weeks before the end of the war!

Thanks for any information that you can give.

Simon

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Armoured Farmer

Simon,

Thanks for getting in touch.

I need to check the diary for the time of his death. There is a transcript here: -

http://www.northirishhorse.org/memorium/ww1/RIF.html

but it ends in April 1918, it takes a while to transfer the stuff into a document.

Leave it with me and I'll post an answer a wee bit later.

Farmer

Here is his SDGW report: -

arnell_james_t.pdf

One of 11 men Killed in Action from the battalion on that day.

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simonmazzei
Simon,

Thanks for getting in touch.

I need to check the diary for the time of his death. There is a transcript here: -

http://www.northirishhorse.org/memorium/ww1/RIF.html

but it ends in April 1918, it takes a while to transfer the stuff into a document.

Leave it with me and I'll post an answer a wee bit later.

Farmer

I had already checked the document that you noted and, like most of the sites & documents that I have found to date, they end in April 1918 or say “page under construction”

Thanks for the lightning fast reply & good luck with the search,

Simon

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Armoured Farmer

Simon,

There is no specific mention of him in the diary, but the bn was involved in an attack. I'll check the rest of the diary later to see if any more information about that day is recorded. From WO 95/2505

post-8494-1163680581.jpg

post-8494-1163680591.jpg

Farmer

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MacM

Simon

I am presently transcribing the remainder of the 9th Battalion diaries (from April 1918). If you send me your email address I should be able to send you the entries for October 1918 in a couple of days, plus a number of interesting documents attached to the diaries for that month.

Cheers

MacM

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simonmazzei

Re - James Thomas Arnell & 9th Battalion North Irish Horse.

Thank you both very much for your time & effort to provide us with information on James Thomas Arnell & the regiment's War Diary

It is very much appreciated .

It was fascinating to see the copy of the diary entry for the day of his death & to better understand the daily life of the regiment and its’ men.

It seems likely that James was one of the 7 other ranks that died in the action as the places noted in the diary are a few km from Harlebeke cemetery which was made after the armistice by the concentration of graves from the surrounding battlefields.

Simon

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Armoured Farmer

Simon,

There are a few more snippets from the War Diaries. Here is the first, also WO 95/2505

post-8494-1163851482.jpg

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Armoured Farmer

And an order for the 24th and 25th. WO 95/2505

post-8494-1163851919.jpg

in two parts as it is fairly difficult to read

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Armoured Farmer

second part. WO 95/2505

post-8494-1163852080.jpg

Regards

Hugh

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simonmazzei
second part

post-8494-1163852080.jpg

Regards

Hugh

Thank you both very much for sharing this information, it is fascinating to plot his unit's movements across the battlefield.

We had always thought it sad that he was killed so close to the end of the war - more so now that we see that he only had to survive to the end of the day before he could have "received kindly attention from civil population who cooked the men's food etc." & "In the evening the civil population were invited to a dance held in the School Room and a pleasant evening was spent."

It was great to read of the interaction with the local people as most histories write about the war and the army in isolation from the resident population.

I have passed the information on to my Father-in-Law who is also grateful for your time & effort. When he learned that we were researching our family tree he was hoping to learn more about the story of his uncle James Thomas - after whom he was named.

James' service no. - 45797 - appears to be higher than the others that died on that day, do you know if the service numbers were sequential and does it give any indication of when or where he joined the 9th Bttn ?

Thank you both again

Simon

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Armoured Farmer

Simon,

I can't tell you much about the R Ir Fus numbering. I do know that the 300 or so North Irish Horse personnel and 120 or so 6th Dragoons Service Squadron men were transferred across on 20th September, 1917 and allocated most of the numbers between 41179 and 41600. There is one man transferred on 24th October, 1917 numbered 42683.

Hugh

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