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Frederick Linsdell - Essex Regiment?


Guest Karen Moore
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Guest Karen Moore

I am seeking information about my grandfather but have little to go on.

His name was Frederick Maskell and he was born in June 1899. We believe that he enlisted under the name of Frederick Linsdell (sp?) as it is thought that he did not discover his real surname until just before his marriage some years later. It is possible that he may have lied about his age at the time of enlistment. We do not know his regiment but it is believed by both my mother and her sister that it was very likely the Essex.

He had two tattoos and one of them was the French flag and the word 'Egypt' was underneath it. Accordingly we believe he served in both France and Egypt and my mother can recall him joking that he learnt to swim in the Suez canal.

He was both gassed and shot in the back and was nursed back to health at a convalescent home in Lowestoft. I have a copy of a formal photo that was taken at Lowestoft showing a group of injured soldiers and their nurses.

If anyone can give me any information concerning my grandfather, the likelihood of him belonging to the Essex regiment given the above information or any information about the home in Lowestoft then I would be really grateful.

Many thanks for taking the trouble to read this.

Karen Moore

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Karen

Welcome to the forum

A quick search for his medal index card found 1 Frederick Linsdell - no Essex Reg mentioned - are you saying the spelling could be wrong ?

Description Medal card of Linsdell, Frederick

Corps Regiment No Rank

London Regiment 2939 Private

Suffolk Regiment 330699 Private

This link will take you to it

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...1&resultcount=1

Plenty of experts on here to help you loads

Glyn

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This one looks more promising to me:

Medal card of Linsell, Frederick

Corps Regiment No Rank

Essex Regiment 1810 Private

Essex Regiment 200329 Private

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...&resultcount=16

The 6-digit number denotes a man of the 4th Essex. 1/4th Essex were part of 54th Division - in Egypt, Suez, Palestine....

(The 4-digit number would have been an earlier number before the Territorial Force men were re-numbered in 1917, so he was probably just in one Regiment & perhaps just one Battalion)

The fly in the ointment is that the 54th Division never served in France. They went to Gallipoli in 1915 and then onto Egypt.

Steve.

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Hi Karen,

Do you think that he is in that photo, also if you do which one is he ?

Could you please post the photo as someone maybe able to help you !!

Cheers

Tim.

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BTW,

The number of Glyn's London/Suffolks man suggests a Cambridgeshire Regiment man with a Suffolks number/regiment moniker.

Steve.

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Guest Karen Moore

Many thanks for the replies. Absolutely amazed at receiving such a quick response.

So far I have been given information for two men - Frederick Linsdell and Frederick Linsell. I put a query against the spelling of the surname in my original post as I know - from other family history research - that names are occasionally spelt incorrectly.

Is it possible that both these men could be my grandfather? I spoke to my aunt this morning and she confirms that he was definitely in both Egypt and France. She recalls that when he went to Egypt they docked at Alexander. In France he was at the Somme. As stated in my earlir post he was both shot and gassed. My aunt is certain he was gassed in France but does not know whether he was shot at the same time. So is it possible that he was with the Essex regiment and was wounded in Egypt? Returned to England and was sent to Lowestoft to convalesce and then joined the Suffolk regiment and went to France?

I will post the photo taken at Lowestoft as soon as I am able to do so. My mother says that she has a photo of Frederick in his army uniform. Would it be helpful to post this as well?

With grateful thanks for all the help so far.

Regards

Karen Moore

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Hi Karen,

Yes ! It would be most helpful if you can post the other photo aswell !!

Cheers

Tim.

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HAve you tried the Essex Regiment Museum? Off the top of my head I cannot recall the curator's email, but a quick Google should throw it up. He's very helpful and always interested in hearing about former members of the Essex regiment.

Adrian

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Forgot the e-mail address -

Essex Regimental Museum

E-mail Address(es):

pompadour@chelmsfordbc.gov.uk

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I would say that these are not the same man. He appears to have had service in the Essex both before and after 1-3-1917, and the other man served in the London Regiment before 1-3-1917 and in the Suffolks in the time that spans 1-3-1917.

It is highly unlikely that he would pick up two separate pre-1.3.1917 numbers, especially in two different TF battalions.

The most "logical" way to fit these into one man would be that he was the Lonodns, transferred to the Essex, both before 1-3-1917 (or vice-versa) and then was renumbered in the Essex, then transferred to the Suffolks/Cambs. If he had done so the regiments should all be shown on one MIC. There is no reason to split them in two.

If he had been in a TF unit and his enlistment time expired he could not have picked up two pre-1.3.1917 numbers and two post-1917 numbers.

In my opinion, 99% certain that these are different men..

Steve.

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In my opinion, 99% certain that these are different men..

Steve.

I agree with you Steve

Your man certainly seems the likeliest to me.

Glyn

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Guest Karen Moore

Once again many thanks for the replies.

I will follow up the suggestion of contacting the Essex Regiment Museum.

The man found by Steve would seem the most likely (despite the mis-spelt name) as my grandfather was a London man. Born in Islington in 1899 and married in Walthamstow in 1919 where he lived for the rest of his life.

However it has been said that 1/4 Essex Regiment went to Egypt but not to France. If the aforementioned man was indeed my grandfather can anyone explain how he might have come to serve in France?

Thanks in anticipation.

Regards

Karen Moore

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A possible explanation is that he served in Egypt and maybe even Gallipoli with the 1/4th Essex until after 1.3.97 - he would have had his 4-digit number changed to a 6-digit number. Then after 1.3.1917*, he was sick or wounded (shot, perhaps) and transferred home to England. Then, due to the manpower shortage in France in 1918 and the distance involved getting him back to Palestine (not to mention the fact that whole divisions were transferred to the Western Front from other Theatres of War), he was transferred to another Essex Battalion in France and, since he hadn't changed Regiments, retained his 6-digit TF number.

At which point he was gassed and headed back to Blighty again.

Only a possible explanation, of course. The Medal Rolls and/or his Service Record (30% still exist) and/or the photos you can provide could cast more light on the subject.

Steve.

* All the main action in Palestine was in 1917 and 1918. There were smaller battles, notably Romani in 1916. In 1917, there was the 1st and 2nd Battles of Gaza, both after 1.3.17 and 3rd Gaza, Jaffa, and Mullebis later on. Plenty of opportunity to get shot in that little lot.

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Plenty of opportunity to get shot in that little lot.

& even more opportunity to catch something life threateningly nasty! ;)

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Might be worth trying Lindsell which is a more common spelling of the name assuming it's spelt wrong in the first place??

Trying to help, not confuse and probably failing on the former!

Hambo

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This one looks more promising to me:

Medal card of Linsell, Frederick

Corps Regiment No Rank

Essex Regiment 1810 Private

Essex Regiment 200329 Private

Unfortunately this Essex Regiment man above died 26/03/1917~back to the drawing board ;)

There is a Frederick Linsell in the Middlesex Regiment [265950]& East Surreys[204200],as he was born & lived in Islington this is a contender,there are also over 20 Frederick Maskells on the MiCs.If your photo's show him with a clear Cap Badge this will definitely help!

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unfortunately this man died 26/03/1917~back to the drawing board ;)

Thats very helpful :angry:

Glyn :lol:

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Guest Karen Moore

Many thanks for continuing with the posts.

And thank you for the information on the Frederick Linsell who died in 1917. Disappointing though.

My mother and aunt are quite certain that my grandfather's service records were not in his real name of Maskell. Apparently his mother did not tell him that his surname was Maskell until just before he got married in December 1919. Also he had the initials 'FL' tattooed on his arm. Linsdell was the name of his step-father and certainly that was the spelling used for the name of one of the witnesses on his marriage certificate. However as his marriage certificate states that his age was 21 and it was in fact 20 it would seem prudent to consider other spellings as well as it is evident that mistakes were made. So we now have Linsdell, Linsell and Lindsell. Any other variants?

I will post the photos as soon as I can. I am going to arrange to have them scanned onto a CD so that I have them in digital format.

Thanks again.

Karen

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Might be worth trying Lindsell which is a more common spelling of the name assuming it's spelt wrong in the first place??

Trying to help, not confuse and probably failing on the former!

Hambo

You are, you're not & no, you're not. :lol:

I did exactly what you suggested this morning and thought I wouldn't add to the assumptions as yet. Because that's all they are.....this is a dangerous track to follow. We shouldn't raise Karen's hopes when we don't have any real facts.

I had a look in Burrows, Essex Units in the War, 1914 - 1919, Essex Territorial Infantry Brigade. This Brigade, the 161st, was formed by the 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th Essex Battalions & the 8th (Cyclist) Battalion. As Steve pointed out it was part of the 54th Division.

Other Ranks are hardly ever mentioned in these books, but I checked anyhow. Interestingly, there happens to be a mention of a Lance Corporal Lindsell who was wounded on November 2, 1917. He was a member of the 161st Machine Gun Company. Third battle of Gaza.

I’m afraid that all this proves exactly nothing. (The name is very close to Linsdell though…) There are 6 Medal Index Cards for Lindsell/Essex Regiment. http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...=1&mediaarray=*

One is an Alex Lindsell, 3/3064, Acting Corporal. http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...1&resultcount=6

Looks as though this could be the one mentioned in Burrows. His service number indicates that he was probably sent via the 3rd (Service) Essex Battalion. No Frederick Lindsell though.

So, what do we add to our knowledge? Zilch. I hate to be a spoil sport, but let's wait for the photograph and hope....Perhaps Karen can squeeze some more information out of her mother & aunt? There seem to be certain techniques for this kind of situation. ;):blink:

Cheers,

Michael

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Unfortunately this Essex Regiment man above died 26/03/1917~back to the drawing board ;)

Schoolboy error!

500 Lines Mr. B.

Do not make quick posts at work.

aka

"Sin in Haste. Repent at Leisure..."

aka

Shoddy research is worse than no research at all...

Bad Steve. Ow! Ow! Ow!

Steve.

PS Just back from Pub (In case no one realised!) :D

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So, what do we add to our knowledge? Zilch. I hate to be a spoil sport, but let's wait for the photograph and hope....Perhaps Karen can squeeze some more information out of her mother & aunt? There seem to be certain techniques for this kind of situation.

I agree. Having considered the more "obvious" options and come up wanting (and apologies to all for any erroneous conclusions), it is time to take a more considered approach, especially from my point of view, and wait until Karen gives everyone something to work on.

Steve.

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I'm sure I had a Lindsell of Essex Regt amongst my list of names but Ive left my folders in the office so wont be able to check until Monday. Sorry to add to the unhelpfulness

Patrick

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Guest Karen Moore

I have (hopefully!) attached a copy of a photograph of my grandfather in his army uniform.

My apologies for the poor quality but the original was not very good.

Regards

Karen

post-8489-1130250940.jpg

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Guest Karen Moore

Please also find attached a group photograph that was taken at a convalesence home in Lowestoft.

Apologies if the orientation is incorrect.

My grandfather is pictured in the middle row, second from the right.

Does anyone know whether it would be possible to trace this home or any of the records relating to it?

Regards

Karen

post-8489-1130251903.jpg

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