Terry_Reeves Posted 23 September , 2006 Share Posted 23 September , 2006 According to LesleieHoward's medical board at Colchester, he claimed to be suffering from headaches and faintness which the board termed "eurathenasia" They also noted that he suffered from "irregular nocturnal exudations". However his heart was sound and there was no evidence of any organic trouble. The board concluded that he was fit for general service and that, although he contracted this condition whilst in the Army, it was not caused by his military service. Four months later he was discharged as no longer fit for service. Interestingly the same question being asked here ,was also asked in 1957 by ET Williams CB CBE DSO MA LLD,of Balliol College, Oxford. In a letter to the War Office Librarian headed "The Dictionary of National Biography" he said: "I wonder whether it would be possible for you to turn up the records and tell me why Leslie Howard Steiner resigned his commission as a second lieutenant in the Northamptonshire Yeomanry in May 1916? I would be interested to know. He dropped the Steiner and became a well-known actor." The request was denied on the grounds that it was "contrary to the practice of the Department to furnish information of the nature asked for..." Leslie Howard Steiner did not serve overseas, which is confirmed in his file. Terry Reeves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonraker Posted 22 April , 2007 Share Posted 22 April , 2007 Radio 4 is broadcasting "The Wrong Hero" at 14.15 on Friday, April 27, a play which "tries to add up the puzzling element in the story" of Howard's disappearance. Apparently the official files on the mystery won't be opened until 2025. Moonraker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Johnson Posted 23 April , 2007 Author Share Posted 23 April , 2007 Blimey, I'll only be 67 !!!!!!!! Paul J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James A Pratt III Posted 23 April , 2007 Share Posted 23 April , 2007 The book "Bloody Biscay" by Chris Goss has an account of the shooting down of Howard's plane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
78th Battalion Posted 24 April , 2007 Share Posted 24 April , 2007 I have a Spitfire group where the pilot appeared in Howards film "Spitfire" "First of the Few" if your interested look here http://www.britishmedalforum.com/viewtopic...&highlight= Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Blonde Posted 25 April , 2007 Share Posted 25 April , 2007 Guys; On the other side, my father, in his oral history, said that he encountered few Jews in the German Army in WW I. (As I work with it I am finding his oral history remarkably accurate.) Again, the same mechanism might have applied, Jews, especially "obvious Jews", being excluded at various points of the enrollment process. Most German Jews (by Rabbinical law, i.e., a Jewish mother) were highly assimilated, and many baptized. Certainly an obvious Orthodox or Hassidic Jew would have made the eyes of a enrollment commission roll. After WW I organized German Jewery engaged in a campaign, publishing books, proporting that they had done their share in the war effort. It would have been an irony to have been excluded from service based on subtle predjudice, and then discriminated against based on supposed failure to serve. Certainly there were exceptional war heros of Jewish origin in both the UK and German forces. But to the non-expert in this area they seem to be a bit thin on the ground. Again, this was likely due to openly Jewish men not being accepted with open arms. My father's commander in the Freikorps, Major von Stephani, the son of a Prussian general, a Guards officer, and a post-war extreme right-wing plotter, later served in the Reichstag as an Ehrenaryan, or "honorary Aryan"; he was to the right of the Nazis and was Jewish, it seems, so he had to serve in the Reichstag as an "honorary Aryan". Wierd! Bob Lembke Hallo Bob, the following information (kindly supplied by Mr. Dave Danner of the GNIC Forum) might be of interest to you with regards Jewish Officers in the German Army of WW1: Approximately 100,000 German Jews served in the Imperial German Army and Navy in the war, and about 85,000 were Frontsoldaten. About 12,000 were killed. The Reichsbund jüdischer Frontsoldaten was founded in February 1919 by Hauptmann Leo Löwenstein. Löwenstein was a reserve officer and physicist, so he doesn't show up in the Ehrenrangliste, but he was an Oberleutnant d.R. with IR 15 in 1914. The Reichsbund jüdischer Frontsoldaten eventually had over 40,000 members. It published a Gedenkbuch of the fallen German Jewish soldiers in the war. It was banned by the Nazis in the late 1930s. Löwenstein ended up in Theresienstadt, but survived the war. I'm not sure what percentage of those veterans were officers. Given their tendency to be more well-educated and urban, there might have been a fair number of Jewish reserve officers, but the active officer corps was heavily biased toward the German aristocracy. So if the two factors might have balanced out, the percentage of Jewish officers to Jewish soldiers might have been similar to that of the army as a whole. Among a sampling of German Jewish officers who fell during the war and are included in the Gedenkbuch are: Lt. Hans Abrahamsohn - 9./IR 426, d. 29.06.1918 Lt. Ernst Adler - Flieg.Ers.Abt. 238; Res.DragR 4, d. 25.04.1918 Lt. Max Aron - 10./IR 363, d. 27.08.1918 Lt. Heinrich Auerbach - 4./RIR 440, d. 23.08.1917 Lt. Dr. Fritz Berend, 10./IR 92, d. 29.09.1915 Lt. Otto Bergmann - 4./IR 65, d. 10.08.1917 Lt. Bruno Berneis - FFA 17, d. 08.08.1916 Lt. Fritz Bernhardt - Nachr. Zug/2.bay.IR, d. 28.09.1918 Lt. Rudolf Bernheimer - 4./bay. RIR 19, d. 19.02.1915 Lt Dr. Heinrich Fritz Bettsak - FFA A209, d. 11.09.1917 Lt. Ludwig Binswanger - Gr.Staffel Stab 5, d. 12.07.1918 Lt. Friedrich Brummel - 9./IR 43, d. 15.03.1917 Lt. Adolf Caro - 4./RIR 80, d. 22.06.1915 Lt. Martin Citron - 3./RIR 228, d. 02.09.1915 Lt. Friedrich Fritz Cohen - 11./RIR 212, d. 20.07.1918 Lt. Otto Cohn - 1./Fußar.Btl. 78, d. 06.04.1918 Lt. Carl Dresdner - 2.Ers.Btl./IR 163, d. 13.10.1918 Lt. Dr. Carl Elsas - 7./FAR 281, d. 30.03.1918 Lt. Hermann Engel - MG-Scharfsch.Abt. 28, d. 01.10.1918 Lt. Dr. Alfred Geiger - 4./RFAR 6, d. 09.10.1918 Lt. Alfred Gerstel - 3./FAR 403, d. 18.07.1918 Lt. Fritz Gerstl - 8./3.bay.IR, d. 15.04.1918 Lt. Alfons Glaser - 10./13.bay.IR, d. 25.08.1914 Oberlt. Dr. Emil Goldschmidt - 4./18.bay.IR, d. 31.03.1918 Lt. Kurt Gottlob - 2/2.Gd. RIR, d. 23.08.1917 Lt. Otto Grosser - 9./GIR 6, d. 31.05.1918 Lt. Dr. Fritz Walter Hantke - 2./1.bay.IR, d. 09.06.1916 Lt. Georg Hartmann - 6./LIR 72, d. 19.05.1915 Lt. Wilhelm Heimann - 11./RIR 99, d. 14.04.1917 Lt. Felix Heymann - 5./RIR 52, d. 28.07.1916 Lt. Aron Hirschmann - 8./22.bay.IR, d. 23.07.1918 Lt. Erich Hofmann - 9./RIR 252, d. 25.10.1918 Lt. Julius Wilhelm Holz - 3.MG./IR 99, d. 13.06.1918 Lt. Alfons Jakob - Stab Art.Kdr. 197, d. 17.10.1918 Lt. Edmund Joelsohn - 5./IR 446, d. 01.09.1918 Lt. Friedrich Kamp - 12./IR 25, d. 05.01.1915 Lt. Alfred Kahn - 1./RIR 203, d. 15.08.1918 Lt. Walter König - d. 08. 1915 Lt. Max Emanuel Koch - Stab/209.Inf.Brig.; DR 6, d. 09.03.1918 Lt. Walter Kronfeld - d. 16.07.1916 Lt. Oskar Kullmann - 7./bay. RFußarR 2, d. 07.06.1917 Lt. Bruno Levi - 8./RIR 120, d. 02.04.1916 Lt. Gustav Lewin - 1./IR 477, d. 10.10.1917 Lt. Hans Lewin - 1.MG/bay.RIR 5, d. 23.08.1918 Lt. Helmuth Lilienfeld - 2. MG/IR 70, d. 10.04.1918 Lt. Hans Lindenberg - 12./12.bay.IR, d. 05.09.1914 Lt. Hans Lobethal - 6./IR 82, d. 30.09.1918 Lt. Ernst May - MG-Abt. 9, d. 26.09.1915 Lt. Fritz Mecklenburg - Kampfgeschw. 1 der OHL Staffel 1, d. 21.09.1917 Hptm. Georg Meyer - 4./bay. RFAR 10, d. 15.12.1916 Lt. Walter Meyer - 10./LIR 15, d. 10.10.1918 Lt. Otto Mond - 3./RIR 52, d. 05.04.1918 Lt. Hans Ulrich Mosse - 10./13.bay.IR, d. 03.08.1916 Lt. Herbert Wilhelm Müller - 6./RFAR 10, d. 05.10.1916 Lt. Alfred Oppenheim - 3./RIR 29, d. 16.04.1917 Lt. Hermann Pelzer - MG/RIR 94, d. 07.10.1917 Lt. Leo Perl - 8./RIR 271, d. 29.07.1915 Lt. Kurt Pfingst - 10./RIR 12, d. 04.01.1917 Oberlt. Dr. Hans Philipp - MG/bay. RIR 7, d. 09.05.1915 Lt. Simon Pinczower - Flieg.Ers.Abt. 11, d. 15.05.1918 Lt. Oswald Röhl - Flieg.Ers.Abt. 1, d. 26.09.1918 Lt. Erich Roth - 8./RIR 130, d. 27.05.1918 Lt. Heinrich Samuelson - 9./IR 79, d. 02.07.1915 Lt. Moritz Friedrich Schäffer - 2./IR 51, d. 08.06.1917 Lt. Karl Scheuer - 7./FAR 92, d. 10.06.1918 Lt. Erwin Schlesinger - 6./IR 457, d. 04.10.1918 Lt. Adolf Max Schottlaender - 2./RIR 88, d. 15.08.1916 Lt. Ernst Schrag - 3.MG/RIR 94, d. 05.10.1917 Lt. Dr. Moritz Schüler - 9./bay. RIR 10, d. 04.11.1914 Lt. Heinrich Schwarzwald - 1.MG/LIR 6, d. 26.03.1917 Lt. Gottfried Sender - 9./RIR 24, d. 13.06.1915 Lt. Walter Sieburth - Min.Werf./IR 43, d. 28.03.1918 Lt. Otto Spanjer-Herford - 12./IR 58, d. 09.08.1918 Lt. Ludwig Stern - 1. Ldst.Inf.Ers.Btl. Landau, d. 01.12.1914 Lt. Georg Sternberg - 4./RFAR 36, d. 27.09.1917 Lt. Alfred Story - 11./RIR 269, d. 02.05.1915 Lt. Max Straus - Luftschiff-Abt. 37; Fesselballonzug 98, d. 13.12.1918 Lt. Martin Strelitz - 11./bay. LIR 7, d. 23.09.1914 Lt. Bernhard Trier - 1.Ers.Abt./FAR 61, d. 23.09.1915 Lt. Rudolf Weill - 3./LdwFAR 8, d. 09.06.1918 Lt. Walter Weiß - Div. Brückentrain 98, d. 24.09.1918 Lt. Ernst Werner - Mag. Fuhrparkkol. 486, d. 08.08.1917 Lt. Max Zeller - 10./bay. RIR 5, d. 24.06.1915 Major z.D. Max Hollerbaum - 2. Lst.Inf.Btl. Passau, d. 26.09.1915 (Maj. Hollerbaum was also a veteran of the Franco-Prussian War). Oberlt. Oskar Herz - 1./bay. RIR 23, d. 16.07.1918 Oberlt. Heinrich Kohn - 4./bay. RIR 12, d. 26.09.1918 Oberlt. Hermann Stettiner - d. 11.1918 Lt. Dr. Bertram Ascher - 5./IR 146, d. 18.08.1915 Lt. Leopold Auerbacher - 3.MG/RIR 121, d. 24.03.1918 Lt. Fritz Baer - 1./MG-Scharfsch.-Abt. 11, d. 25.03.1918 Lt. Arthur Baerlein - Stab I./bay. RFAR 1, d. 28.10.1917 Lt. David Bauernfreund - 3./RIR 227, d. 11.08.1918 Lt. Max Bendix - 12./RIR 53, d. 30.04.1917 Lt. Walter Berent - 2.MG./RIR 82, d. 11.10.1918 Lt. Julius Bloch - 1./IR 144, d. 22.07.1917 Lt. Heinz Bogusch - 3./IR 43, d. 03.11.1917 Lt. Fritz Bonheim - 12./RIR 76, d. 30.09.1915 Lt. Julius David - 5./FAR 70, d. 22.10.1916 Lt. Kurt Elias - 15./IR 92, d. 25.06.1915 Lt. Alfred B. Elkan - 8./FAR 7, d. 08.10.1918 Lt. Berthold Elsas - 12./LIR 120, d. 29.03.1916 Lt. Max Engel - 4./IR 129, d. 23.10.1918 Lt. Alfred Falk - FFA A292, d. 30.01.1917 Lt. Friedrich Fuchs - 11./IR 362, d. 10.05.1917 Lt. Julius Fuld - 7./RIR 30, d. 02.08.1917 Lt. Julius Fürst - 2.MG/IR 189, d. 28.03.1918 Lt. Paul Martin Gans - 7./IR 76, d. 08.05.1919 Lt. Walter Erich Gans - 9./IR 67, d. 02.03.1915 Lt. Ewald Glaser - 9./IR 157, d. 08.08.1918 Lt. Julius Goldfinger - 9./LIR 29, d. 16.10.1915 Lt. Martin Goldschmidt - 6./FAR 20, d. 19.04.1918 Lt. Fritz Grabowski - 1./Gd.Gren.R 3, d. 14.09.1916 Lt. Ernst Grunewald - 9./IR 60, d. 19.08.1917 Lt. Fritz Guggenheimer - 3./bay. RIR 18, d. 25.07.1918 Lt. Josef Gumperts - 1./IR 53, d. 08.01.1916 Lt. Rudolf Gumprich - Minenwerf.Kp./JägR 11, d. 15.09.1918 Lt. Artur Gutenberg - 5./LIR 116, d. 25.09.1915 Lt Dr. Hans Gutmann - 1./RIR 242, d. 05.07.1916 Lt. Dr. Joseph Gutmann - 7./bay. RIR 5, d. 05.09.1914 Lt. Waldemar Heidegger - 6./RIR 67, d. 07.04.1915 Lt. Emil Heilbronner - 1./bay. RIR 15, d. 15.07.1918 Lt. Hellmut Hellwitz - 5./IR 112, d. 25.05.1915 Lt. Siegfried Henle - 1./IR 76, d. 26.04.1915 Lt. Otto Herz - 12./RIR 122, d. 29.12.1917 Lt. Dr. Alfred Herz - 6./RIR 68, d. 23.02.1915 Lt. Dr. jur. Paul Herzberg - 3./FAR 183, d. 23.10.1918 Lt. Erich Hesselberger - Bal.Abw.Kan.Zug 117, d. 27.03.1916 Lt. Friedrich Heymann - 11./RIR 78, d. 26.04.1918 Lt. Heinrich Hirsch - 2.MG/IR 408, d. 02.10.1918 Lt. Emil Höchster - 6./6.bay.IR, d. 12.10.1917 Lt. Max Holzinger - bay. FFA 290b, d. 11.09.1917 Lt. Hermann Horn - 2./Fußar.Btl 75, d. 03.09.1918 Lt. Dr. Alfred Jacobsohn - 12./RIR 67, d. 24.10.1916 Lt. Adolf, Dr. Jacobsohn - 5./RIR 226, d. 17.03.1918 Lt. Ernst Joseph - Mun.Kol.B./Fußar.Btl. 157, d. 13.03.1918 Lt. Robert Kahn - 3./Brig.Ers.Btl. 30, d. 19.06.1915 Lt. Ernst Kassel - 10./IR 162, d. 11.04.1918 Lt. Alfred Katzenstein - 7./bay. RIR 17, d. 28.11.1916 Lt. Hermann Kern - 3./FüsR122, d. 30.06.1918 Lt. Hans Kimmelstiel - 9./RIR 59, d. 13.01.1919 Lt. Hans Koch - 6./bay. RIR 18, d. 15.07.1917 Lt. Ernst Kohlberg - 10./IR 364, d. 30.10.1917 Lt. Franz Koppel - 10./IR 150, d. 21.03.1918 Lt. Ernst Krakenberger - 2.MG/14.bay.IR, d. 20.09.1917 Lt. Hermann Kramer - 12./IR 336, d. 09.06.1918 Lt. Alexander Landmann - 6./bay. RIR 5, d. 26.04.1918 Lt. Erich Landsberger - 7./IR 50, d. 13.04.1918 Lt. Julius Leeser - MG./RIR 21, d. 05.08.1915 Lt. Marcel Lévy - 3./IR 99, d. 22.08.1917 Lt. Dr. Isai Lewin - 5./IR 113, d. 25.09.1915 Lt. Richard Lißberger - 6./bay. EIR 1, d. 22.10.1918 Lt. Dr. Willy Loewenthal - HusR 7, d. 27.12.1918 Lt. Walter Löwenstein - 7./IR 44, d. 24.09.1918 Lt. Robert Marburg - Ballon Zug 1, d. 12.10.1918 Lt. Gerhard Maschke - 2./Kav.Schütz.R. 87, d. 01.07.1918 Lt. Fritz Mayer - 2./bay.RIR 17, d. 19.07.1916 Lt. Franz Meyer - 4./bay. FußAR 4, d. 09.03.1917 Lt. Hermann Meyer - 6./FAR 44, d. 13.11.1918 Lt. Fritz Friedrich Meyer - Fußar.Bttr. 478, d. 05.05.1917 Lt Viktor Moritz - 6./bay. RIR 5, d. 22.10.1915 Lt. Fritz Müller - 8./RIR 202, d. 29.08.1918 Lt. Ernst Adolf Müller - 6.bay. Kampfgeschwader, Kampfstaffel 36, d. 10.11.1916 Lt. Erich Nathan - 2.MG/IR 53, d. 03.12.1918 Lt. Fritz Oppenheim - 7./IR 181, d. 19.09.1918 Lt. Hugo Reyersbach - 12./RIR 29, d. 29.07.1917 Lt. Fritz Rosenheimer - 9./FAR 221, d. 17.10.1918 Lt. Dr. Franz Rosin - FFA A253, d. 03.06.1917 Lt. Julius Roßmann - 4./7.bay.IR, d. 24.03.1918 Lt. Max Rotschild - 7./22.bay.IR, d. 26.09.1916 Lt. Hugo Ruhstadt - 1./IR 458, d. 24.04.1917 Lt. Hermann Samuel - 9./14.bay.IR, d. 27.11.1914 Lt. Paul Scheyen - 2./Fußar.Btl. 23, d. 25.06.1916 Lt. Ernst Schöneberg - 12./IR 461, d. 15.06.1918 Lt. Arthur Simon - 5.Ers.M.G.-Kp. /XIII. A.K., d. 31.10.1918 Lt. Hermann Simon - 5./FAR 266, d. 23.10.1917 Lt. Friedrich Sommer - 3./IR 66, d. 13.09.1918 Lt. Max Stein - d. 16.08.1917 Lt. Heinrich Steiner - 8./FAR 238, d. 25.04.1918 Lt. Dr. Max Theodor - 2./Fußar.Btl. 114, d. 22.10.1918 Lt. Heinz Wachsmann - 3.MG/RIR 71, d. 14.06.1917 Lt. Viktor Weil - 5./FüsR 40, d. 28.02.1916 Lt. Andreas Wolf - 2.MG/RIR 237, d. 27.08.1918 Lt. Fritz Wolff - 12./RIR 69, d. 06.05.1917 Connaught Stranger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Blonde Posted 25 April , 2007 Share Posted 25 April , 2007 The following information is provided by "Ulsterman" at the GMIC Forum: Before 1848 only one Jew was a regular officer in the Prussian army: the exceptional Major Meno Burg of the artillery. A royal edict barred jews from officer rank. Several, especially medical officers, received commissions in the 'liberal' 1870s. From 1885-1914 the German Jewish League actively campaigned for jews to be given reserve officer commissions and despite several Reichstag commissions, notably in 1908 and 1913, no Jews were given reserve commissions. Between 20,000-30,000 served as Einjahriger volunteers between 1875-1914. The political issue came to a head in May, 1912, when the Reichstag debated the case of Arthur Leiber, an Einjahrer who had been recommended for a commission by his regimental colonel, but denied by the War Department. The War Ministers' abysmal response was accorded by many to Be "not his finest hour" (Kaiser Wilhelm). Many anti-Semetic Prussian Reichstag Delegates openly stated that the jews should not be allowed officer status because of their inferior race and many senior Prussian officers openly agreed. In 1914 the Reich had @ 650,000 Jewish citizens -not including illegal Polish Jewish immigrants. The Bavarian and Austrian armies both gave commissions to Jews. The Austrians had a number of Jewish Generals as well as a Field Marshall. In 1943 the Gestapo and Vienna SA and a few HJ helpers rounded up the inhabitants of the Vienna Jewish Disabled Servicemens' Home (@ 300 vets) and sent them to Auschwitz where they were all murdered. I once knew a man whose family were sent to Thereisenstadt because he had been a Lt. d R. in the Bavarian army. He was given a rare Visa to the USA in 1937 because he had won the EK1-and it was noted on his Visa application. His family, except his daughter Gerda, who I still know quite well, were all gassed in 1943. The SA man who took their house in Marburg still lived there in 1987. I expect his family still has the house. Ann Franks' father was also a Lt.d R. and won the EK2. "Ulsterman" So if there were approxamatly 650,000 Jewish Citizens in 1914, presumeably Men, Women & Children, and 100,000 Jewish men served in the German military, it would be a fairly high percentage of the German Jewish population Sorry for leading the topic off at a slant, but I feel that the facts have to be stated as oppossed to somebodys "oral" and unsupported claims. Connaught Stranger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob lembke Posted 25 April , 2007 Share Posted 25 April , 2007 The following information is provided by "Ulsterman" at the GMIC Forum: Before 1848 only one Jew was a regular officer in the Prussian army: the exceptional Major Meno Burg of the artillery. A royal edict barred jews from officer rank. Several, especially medical officers, received commissions in the 'liberal' 1870s. From 1885-1914 the German Jewish League actively campaigned for jews to be given reserve officer commissions and despite several Reichstag commissions, notably in 1908 and 1913, no Jews were given reserve commissions. Please note the credentials of the following gentleman: Bernard Wasserstein: Born London 1948. Educated High School of Glasgow and Wyggeston Grammar School, Leicester. BA, Modern History, Balliol College, Oxford 1969. Graduate Studentship, Nuffield College, Oxford 1969-73. Visiting Research Student, the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, 1970-71. MA, Oxford 1972. D Phil, Modern History, Nuffield College, Oxford 1974. D Litt, Oxford 2001. Research Fellow in Politics, Nuffield College, Oxford 1973-5. Junior Lecturer in Politics, Magdalen College, Oxford 1969-70. College Lecturer in Modern History and International Relations, Corpus Christi College, Oxford 1974-6. Lecturer in Modern History, Sheffield University 1976-9. Visiting Lecturer in History and International Relations, the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, 1979-80. Associate Professor of History, Brandeis University, 1980-82, Professor 1982-96. Visiting Fellow, Institute of Advanced Studies, the Hebrew University of Jerusalem 1984-5. Dean of Graduate School of Arts and Sciences, Brandeis University 1990-92. National Endowment for the Humanities Fellowship 1994-5. Visiting Fellow, All Souls College Oxford, 1995. President, Oxford Centre for Hebrew and Jewish Studies and Fellow of St Cross College 1996-2000. Professor of Modern History, University of Glasgow 2000-3. Fellow, National Humanities Center, North Carolina, 2002-3. Fellow Wissenschaftskolleg zu Berlin, 2004-5. Professor Wasserstein, who you may note has a masters and two doctorates from Oxford, wrote a book, The Secret lives of Trebitsch Lincoln, published when he was the Chairman of the History Department at Brandeis University, the leading Jewish university in the United States. In this book, he stated that the following officer was Jewish. (He was the father of my father's commanding officer in the Freikorps.) Generalleutnant von Stephani, who on May 7, 1900, was the commanding officer of the Prussian 11th Division. This is from the Prussian Rangliste for 1900, page 63. His son, who founded and led the Freikorps Potsdam, one of the only about two Freikorps based on Guards units, was, on May 6, 1914, was serving on the Great General Staff of the General Staff, seconded there from his home unit, the Guarde=Schuetzen=Bataillon, an elite unit even within the Prussian Guard. Only two officers of the battalion were not noblemen and/or "vons", and one of those was Captain Rohr who later commanded the Storm Battalion Rohr. In may 1914 von Stephani had been in the Great General Staff for three years. (The 1914 information is from the Prussian Rangliste of 1914, pages 27 and 161.) So "Ulsterman" is telling us that even in 1914 a Jew could not get a commission as a reserve lieutenant? When there was a Jewish Generalleutnant commanding a Prussian division in 1900, and in 1914 his son was a Guards officer, and had been posted to the Great General Staff for three years? Between 20,000-30,000 served as Einjahriger volunteers between 1875-1914. Wasn't becoming a Einjahriger Freiwilliger a route to become a reserve officer? Why would 20,000 to 30,000 Jews pay for their own food, uniforms, etc. fo a year to then be denied a reserve officer commission? The political issue came to a head in May, 1912, when the Reichstag debated the case of Arthur Leiber, an Einjahrer who had been recommended for a commission by his regimental colonel, but denied by the War Department. The War Ministers' abysmal response was accorded by many to Be "not his finest hour" (Kaiser Wilhelm). Many anti-Semetic Prussian Reichstag Delegates openly stated that the jews should not be allowed officer status because of their inferior race and many senior Prussian officers openly agreed. In 1914 the Reich had @ 650,000 Jewish citizens -not including illegal Polish Jewish immigrants. The Bavarian and Austrian armies both gave commissions to Jews. The Austrians had a number of Jewish Generals as well as a Field Marshall. In 1943 the Gestapo and Vienna SA and a few HJ helpers rounded up the inhabitants of the Vienna Jewish Disabled Servicemens' Home (@ 300 vets) and sent them to Auschwitz where they were all murdered. I once knew a man whose family were sent to Thereisenstadt because he had been a Lt. d R. in the Bavarian army. He was given a rare Visa to the USA in 1937 because he had won the EK1-and it was noted on his Visa application. His family, except his daughter Gerda, who I still know quite well, were all gassed in 1943. The SA man who took their house in Marburg still lived there in 1987. I expect his family still has the house. Ann Franks' father was also a Lt.d R. and won the EK2. "Ulsterman" So if there were approxamatly 650,000 Jewish Citizens in 1914, presumeably Men, Women & Children, and 100,000 Jewish men served in the German military, it would be a fairly high percentage of the German Jewish population Sorry for leading the topic off at a slant, but I feel that the facts have to be stated as oppossed to somebodys "oral" and unsupported claims. Connaught Stranger. On the face of it, "Ulsterman"s" "facts" don't seem to make any sense, and are internally inconsistant at several places. However, what is probably the problem here are the questions "Who is a Jew?" or "What is a Jew?". This question is of interest to me; in fact I currently am having a UK-based geneologist look into the question of details of the identity of my English maternal grand-mother, who quite possibly, based on several clues, may have been Jewish, which of course would make me a Jew. It is a bit odd that Connaught has dug back a year and a half to find something that I posted to take a shot at. My father simply stated that as far as he could tell, there did not seem to be many Jews in the German Army. That probably is the key, since so many German Jews had assimalated (sp?), many of them also being baptized. Perhaps, probably likely, the German Army did not consider such a person a "Jew". But I am certain that the German Jewish League did consider them Jews. Does anyone actually know anything about this? Did the Prussian Army accept observant Jews; what about what might be called Orthodox Jews? Who actually is "Ulsterman"? To further prove my ignorance, what is the "GMIC"? I am not stating that his "facts" are rubbish, but they seem to be snippets, with each paragraph implicitly reflecting a different definition of who was a Jew. I doubt that my father knew that his Freikorps CO was Jewish. Bob Lembke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Blonde Posted 25 April , 2007 Share Posted 25 April , 2007 Hallo Bob, I didnt realise there was a time limit to adding to any previous posts, funny its not mentioned in any of the regulations of the GWF (Great War Forum) to you. By the Way the GMIC is the Gentlemens Military Interest Club located at: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=1764...mp;#entry171042 feel free to come along and take a look. With regards Jewish Officers in the Service of the German Army in WW1 here are more names, courtesy of Mr. Dave Danner at the G.M.I.C Forum "Another 75 fallen German Jewish officers below. Of these, 28 were Bavarian. Among the rest, among all the officers listed here and above, there does seem to be a fair cross section - Rhinelanders, Silesians, Württembergers, Badeners, Hessians, Thuringians, etc., even Guards officers (striking given the prejudices of the Prussian officer corps). One group that seems distinctly underrepresented are Saxons. The only two I see out of all 258 here are Lt. Dr. Hans Gutmann, a Dresdner in 1./RIR 242, and Lt. Fritz Oppenheim, a Chemnitzer in 7./IR 181. Oberlt. Karl Moßmann - I./bay. RIR 11, d. 09.08.1915 Oberlt. Dr. Julius Schloß - Stab/11.bay.Inf.Div., d. 29.06.1918 Lt. Dr. Arthur Aal - 11./bay. RIR 21, d. 01.10.1016 Lt. Erich Adam - 2./RIR 256, d. 22.09.1915 Lt. Josef Altmann - 5./RIR 273, d. 29.07.1917 Lt. Fritz Arndt - 3./IR 401, d. 10.09.1918 Lt. Alfred Baer - 8./württ. FußAR 13, d. 24.07.1918 Lt. Julius Bauer - 2./IR 185, d. 21.03.1918 Lt. Stephan Bauer - bay. Inf.Gesch.Bttr. 5, d. 01.04.1917 Lt. Georg Bloch - Nachr.Zug/Res.Jäg.Btl. 3, d. 02.05.1918 Lt. Max Bonheim - 4./Ldw.Brig.Ers.Btl. 55, d. 15.07.1916 Lt. Martin Cohn - Minenwerfer-Kp. 10, d. 07.06.1918 Lt. Alfons Dingfelder - 10./bay. RIR 23, d. 25.07.1915 Lt. Bernhard Ellenstein - 7./bay. RIR 6, d. 01.07.1916 Lt. Heinz Epstein - 3./bay. RIR 26, d. 23.12.1916 Lt. Emil Jakob Ettlinger - 2./IR 360, d. 20.07.1918 Lt. Dr. Leonhard Frank - 8./RIR 270, d. 08.07.1917 Lt. Erwin Freudenthal - 8./RIR 247, d. 29.10.1917 Lt. Richard Friedmann - 7./bay. RIR 21, d. 25.03.1918 Lt. Siegfried Friedmann - 1./RIR 261, d. 16.08.1917 Lt. Artur Gabbe - 1/IR 185, d. 18.11.1916 Lt. Elija Goitein - 11./RIR 224, d. 26.05.1915 Lt. Ludwig Goldschmidt - 7./bayRIR 19, d. 09.09.1916 Lt. Jakob Guggenheimer - 7./bay. RIR 12, d. 27.09.1918 Lt. Walter Gumprich - 5./IR 30, d. 30.09.1918 Lt. Hugo Gutmann - 4./FAR 116, d. 28.10.1915 Lt. Walter Hammerstein - 4./RIR 267, d. 16.02.1915 Lt. Erich Heilbrunn - 8./bay. RIR 10, d. 21.03.1918 Lt. Karl Heilbrunn - 12./IR 87, d. 02.04.1917 Lt. Leopold Hirsch - 12./RIR 94, d. 30.04.1918 Lt. Fritz Kahn - 9./2.bay.IR, d. 24.05.1917 Lt. Nathan Kahn - 2.MG/bay. RIR 32, d. 30.09.1918 Lt. Max Kahn - 3.MG./bay.RIR 22, d. 14.04.1918 Lt. Otto Kahn - 1./22.bay.IR, d. 24.06.1918 Lt. Walter Kaß - 11./IR 135, d. 26.09.1915 Lt. Siegfried Kaufmann - 6./RIR 40, d. 08.01.1917 Lt. Dr. Justin Kühn - 7./bay. RIR 10, d. 08.10.1914 Lt. Richard Kürzinger - MG/bay. RIR 21, d. 24.11.1915 Lt. Emil Landau - 3./IR 174, d. 10.04.1918 Lt. Dr. Josef Lehmann - 7./bay. RIR 21, d. 24.03.1917 Lt. Dr. Otto Levinger - 8./RIR 68, d. 16.04.1917 Lt. Curt Löb - 11./RIR 203, d. 18.06.1918 Lt. Hans Siegfried Loeb - 6./IR 365, d. 02.08.1916 Lt. Alfred Löwenthal - 2./2.Ers.Btl./Jäg.Btl. 5, d. 07.03.1916 Lt. Hugo Lyon - Stab/IR 25, d. 07.09.1917 Lt. Hans Mann - Minenwerfer-Kp. 33, d. 10.05.1916 Lt. Alfred Marum - 9./IR 145, d. 01.12.1917 Lt. Stephan Mayer–Weismann - 6./bay. RIR 7, d. 16.04.1917 Lt. Leo Mohnr - 3.MG/bay. RIR 16, d. 04.11.1918 Lt. Theodor Moos - Gebirgs-Btl. 11, d. 27.05.1918 Lt. Dr. August Moser - FFA 235, d. 18.09.1917 Lt. Albert Neuburger - 12./RIR 247, d. 14.05.1915 Lt. Robert Ottensooser - 2./bay. RIR 20, d. 12.11.1914 Lt. Adolf Proskauer - 8./RIR 202, d. 03.05.1918 Lt. Hans Proskauer - 5./RIR 66, d. 23.07.1918 Lt. Fritz Reifenberg - 3./Fußar.Btl. 127, d. 21.04.1918 Lt. Friedrich Reis - 12./bay. RIR 21, d. 08.05.1917 Lt. Fritz Friedrich Rosenzweig - 3./bay. MG-Scharfsch.Abt. 2, d. 01.04.1918 Lt. Siegfried Rothschild - 2./IR 124, d. 13.07.1917 Lt. Walter Salomon - 6./IR 165, d. 27.09.1918 Lt. Prof. Dr. Karl Schwarzschild - Ldw.Bez. Potsdam, d. 11.05.1916 Lt. Eugen Selig - 1./FußAR 22, d. 22.08.1917 Lt. Siegfried Silbermann - 10./bay. RIR 23, d. 15.04.1918 Lt. Ludwig Stahl - Stab/bay. RIR 25, d. 08.08.1918 Lt. Dr. Daniel Stein - d. 22.03.1922 Lt. Felix Steinfeld - LIR 385, d. 22.07.1917 Lt. Max Stern - 7./LIR 61, d. 16.08.1915 Lt. Alfred Emil Stettiner - 9./LIR 111, d. 11.11.1918 Lt. Ernst Straus - 4./EIR 29, d. 02.07.1917 Lt. Paul Strauß - 2./bay. RIR 19, d. 01.09.1914 Lt. Hugo Sundheimer - Stab II./bay. RIR 20, d. 01.06.1918 Lt. Ernst Emil Weil - FFA A213, d. 26.07.1917 Lt. Otto Weil - 12./IR 121, d. 18.06.1917 Lt. Siegfried Wolff - 3./Ers.Btl./IR 64, d. 04.06.1918 Lt. Josef Zürndorfer - Fliegertruppe; RIR 154, d. 19.09.1915." I would like, if possible, these posts to be split off in to a seperate thread as its getting to be a very interesting thread by its own right to the memory of a largely forgotton group of men who history has passed by.. Connaught Stranger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Gilinsky Posted 30 January , 2008 Share Posted 30 January , 2008 Both the German and AH authorities openly allowed German and AH Jewish soldiers and officers to practice their religion at least on the Eastern Front (facing Imperial Russia) in order to reinforce the Central Power's "liberation" and "civilizing" philosophy versus the Czarist yoke of the Slavs generally including Russo-Polish Jews living in the pale of settlement(that is the official Imperial Russian area set aside for Jewish habitation). As well the German and AH authorities recognized early that for military morale allowing soldiers to practice their religion in far off rural areas would do no harm since the numbers of Jews were relatively smallish and the forces scattered. John Toronto There are btw some fascinating photos in various published histories of the Eastern Front in German during and after the war showing German soldiers being greeted warmly by such Russian Pale and Polish Jews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Gilinsky Posted 30 January , 2008 Share Posted 30 January , 2008 Part of the mystery I think from the above posts alone, is whether Howard resigned voluntarilly in the spring of 1916 or severed ALL military ties including his commission in 1917. What interests me are the reasons for his resignation: did he in fact have "shell shock?" Obviously he never went any where near the front lines with conclusive primary evidence that he only ever served in Great Britain and probably did not do much travelling even then. Did he try to "fake" a mental condition including the very commonly diagnosed "epilepsy?" John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph J. Whitehead Posted 30 January , 2008 Share Posted 30 January , 2008 If you want to look at the details of the Jewish war dead who served in the German Army you need only look at the book 'Die Judischen Gefallenen des Deutschen Heeres, der Deutschen Marine und der Deutschen Schütztruppen 1914-1918, Ein Gedenkbuch'. The edition I have was published in 1933 and lists over 10,000 Jewish war dead by unit, by town and provides rank in many cases, company, regiment, etc. While providing the details on the Jewish war dead it of course fails to provide the details on the men who served and survived or were wounded. In my studies of casualties among the German states I have fond that the percentage of killed to those who survived regardless of religious background remained the same. In regard to officers the lists include the names of 322 officers, 185 Medical officers and 30 aviator officers who were killed. The numbers given for Jewish soldiers that served was 100,000, a number that sounds too vague. It is possible the exact number was never truly known. Ralph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domsim Posted 6 February , 2008 Share Posted 6 February , 2008 Just done a quick search of NA files on the search engine and there is a Home Office file on what might be Leslie's father. This must relate to his original naturalisation in the 1890's-wonder if contains any later notes etc.? HO 144/333/B11330 Nationality and Naturalisation: Steiner, Ferdinand, from Austria. Resident in London. Certificate A6849 issued 26 September 1891. I wonder if Howard spoke fluent German (taught by his father) and if he got intelligence work as a low grade translator in the security services for the rest of the war. There are staff lists for MI5 during the war years in the National Archives. Might have given him the contacts for later work (if he did it!) Cheers Dominic Hi Folks Browsing through old mails I came on this one and just to mention I went to Kew about a year ago and checked Ferdinand Steiner's Home Office file which, unfortunatley, contained nothing relevant or earth shattering to contribute to the Leslie Howard story. Cheers Dominic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 31 July , 2015 Share Posted 31 July , 2015 In today's Tottygraph is a piece about the actor, Leslie Howard (best known, probably, as Ashley Wilkes in Gone With the Wind). In the article it states that Howard served in a cavalry regiment in the GW, but was invalided out with shell shock in 1916. Anyone any information about the regiment or other details of his service? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 31 July , 2015 Share Posted 31 July , 2015 Lieutenant in the Northhamptonshire Regt, khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 31 July , 2015 Share Posted 31 July , 2015 Mounted Branch, obviously! Ah - just checked Wiki: they say Northamptonshire Yeomanry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 31 July , 2015 Share Posted 31 July , 2015 In today's Tottygraph is a piece about the actor, Leslie Howard (best known, probably, as Ashley Wilkes in Gone With the Wind). In the article it states that Howard served in a cavalry regiment in the GW, but was invalided out with shell shock in 1916. Anyone any information about the regiment or other details of his service? Can't see any obvious SWB but, again from Wiki, it looks he relinquished his commission rather than being invalided out which I guess would fit with no SWB. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMarsdin Posted 31 July , 2015 Share Posted 31 July , 2015 Having just looked on a Gone With The Wind website http://gwtwfansite.weebly.com/leslie-howardashley-wilkes.html it seems his first film was "The Heroine of Mons". I was puzzled as the blurb says he was a bank clerk in 1914, taking up acting as therapy after his injury in 1917, while that film was actually made in 1914 !!! I suppose, although not entiltled to one he could claim to be Mons Star Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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