Peter1 Posted 16 October , 2005 Share Posted 16 October , 2005 Hello to all, Following my recent acquisition of some photographs of family history members from an Aunt, here is a photo of two of my grandmother's mother's brother's who were killed during WW1. The two men are George and Thomas Boggon who both served in the DLI and both of whom I knew nothing about until very recently. Unfortunately, unless any member can let me know otherwise, I do no know which of them is Thomas and which is George. Sorry about the condition of the photo - thats how I received it! The 1901 census shows :- Michael Boggon, Head, married, aged 40 yrs, born Houghton Le Spring. Ann Boggon, Wife, married aged 39 yrs, born Hetton Le Hole. William Boggon, Son, single, aged 16 yrs, born Hetton Le Hole. Henry Boggon, Son, single, aged 14 yrs, born Hetton Le Hole Margaret Boggon, Daughter, Single, aged 12 yrs, born Hetton Le Hole. George Boggon, Son, aged 10 yrs, born Hetton Le Hole. Thomas Boggon, Son, aged 8 yrs, born Hetton Le Hole. Dorothy Boggon, Daughter, aged 4 yrs, born Hetton Le Hole. Norman Boggon, Son, aged 2 yrs, born hetton le Hole. Barbara Boggon, Daughter, aged 3 mnths, born Hetton Le Hole. The CWGC site has the following ;- Private Henry Boggon, 15528, 15th Bn., Durham Light Infantry, who died aged 32, 6th October 1917. Son of Michael and Annie Boggon of Sunderland; Husband of Annabel Boggon, of 35 James St., Southwick, Sunderland. Boulogne Eastern Cemetery. Lance Corporal George Boggon, 14136, 14th Bn., Durham Light Infantry, who died 24th September 1916. Thiepval Memorial. Private T Boggon, 14138, 14th Bn., Durham Light Infantry, died 7th November 1915. ST.Sever Cemetery, Rouen. The Soldiers Died CD shows the following additional information; - Henry died of wounds, France & Flanders, born Hetton Le Hole, Enlisted Sunderland. George killed in action, France and Flanders, born Hetton , Enlisted Sunderland. Thomas died of wounds, France & Flanders, born Hetton, Enlisted Sunderland. It does seem that George and Thomas probably enlisted together, as did many other brothers. I have the medal cards from the National archives site but I do not see any further information on them. My Aunt seems to recall that Norman was in the DLI but I can find nothing of him or William on the CWGC or Soldiers Died CD. Margaret on the census went on to marry John Stewart who I believe to be the man in the photo on my initial post, reference Royal Field Artillery. So it would seem that Margaret had a Husband and three brothers killed in WW1. One of many similar incidents I am sure, but very sad nonetheless. If anyone has any information to add or can correct me on any detail then I would be very grateful. I am sure that this is a familiar story for many members and the photos may not be very interesting to some but for a new member who has just been handed a group of photos of family he never knew existed, the desire to learn more is very strong. This all started with two photos I was shown for the first time both depicting crosses above graves believed to be taken shortly after WW1, one of which shows the ID. No. of Thomas Boggon. I will start a separate post later showing the crosses in the hope that the cross on other photo may be identifiable to members. Many Thanks to Steve for pointing me in the right direction. Regards. Peter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray hoggart Posted 19 October , 2005 Share Posted 19 October , 2005 A sad sight those two young lads, barely out of school. Ray7155 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David T Posted 19 October , 2005 Share Posted 19 October , 2005 Peter, It is difficult to really appreciate how the family must have borne such losses. I've done a fair bit of research on the DLI, having started with the 15/DLI with which my Grandfather served. The attachment provides some extracts relating to the two DLI battalions you're particularly interested in for the periods when your Great Uncles were lost. I hope it helps to add to the history you're putting together. David T. Extracts_for_Peter_Boggon.doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter1 Posted 19 October , 2005 Author Share Posted 19 October , 2005 Hello Ray, Thanks for the reply and for reading the posting. I do not know how families coped in those days with large losses in the same family. I suppose at the end of the day they had no choice, they just had to get on with life in the best way they could. After all, families from all countries were suffering the same way. Regards, Peter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter1 Posted 19 October , 2005 Author Share Posted 19 October , 2005 Hi David, Thanks for taking the time and trouble to send the attachment, also for reading the post. This is information that I had not read before and paints a better picture of what they had to endure. This area of research is all new to me but now that I have become involved, I now realise that my understanding of what was going on over there was very limited. One of the saddest feelings that I have is that up until a few months ago I knew nothing at all about these relatives.To my recollection, nobody in the family has ever talked about them or given them the honour that they deserve. If its OK , could I pass on a copy of your attachment to my father in law. His Grandfather Frederick Dee, served with the 13th & 14th Btn. DLI and fortunately survived WW1. He also fought in the second Boer campaign but I do not know his unit. Sorry about the delay in replying - I was engrossed in your attachment!! If possible, could you let me know how to source information on the 13th & 14 btn? Regards. Peter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian turner Posted 19 October , 2005 Share Posted 19 October , 2005 Peter, I am sure you will become 'hooked' on these searches, and especially as one is filled with a desire to 'do right' by these poor chaps' memories. May I suggest a couple of avenues to explore in seeking the correct I Ds in the picture? A general appeal around the family for any other pictures of them individually. A trawl through the local newspapers around the time they were killed. Quite often the casualties were published weekly, including a picture of the serviceman involved. Sometimes there was a 1918/1919 'souvenir' edition with a roll of honour together with pictures. It may take a while, but the local papers are usually held on microfilm reels at the local library and you can quickly get a feel for which page of the paper was devoted to the casualty lists. Then you can skip through quickly to the next week, etc. (Don't get side-tracked on other articles - they are often quite interesting, even the old adverts!) Just an idea or two. Good hunting Ian PS - obvious comment, but have you tried for their service records? Won't include a picture, but could be interesting is still surviving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter1 Posted 19 October , 2005 Author Share Posted 19 October , 2005 Ian, You must be able to read minds!! (not a lot in mine)..... I have just sent off a letter to my aunt who handed me the photos. I do not know what happened to any of the medals (I have searched DLI. museum online) or if there are any more photos of these men in the family. Hopefully a family member will have more information as it is a large family. My father in law, who lives near Sunderland, has kindly offered to look through the newspaper archives. I know it will be involved but as so many of them were in the Sunderland area he may be lucky. I have read about the service records on the Long Long Trail and as I understand, about 30% have survived and are held at the National Archives. Is it correct that the only way to research them is by visiting the N.A? With reference to the 1901 census, two other brothers, William and Norman were living with Thomas, George and Henry. Although I was informed that Norman also joined the DLI., I cannot find anything on his service with them. Is there anywhere to search, other than CWGC, medal cards or army records at National Archives that would indicate where these men may have served? Thanks for the information and for reading the piece on the Boggons. Regards. Peter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFF Posted 20 October , 2005 Share Posted 20 October , 2005 Great photo. Why not send a copy to the DLI Regimental Museum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David T Posted 20 October , 2005 Share Posted 20 October , 2005 Hello Peter, Pleased you liked the earlier attachment. Just to help fill your time in, there's another attched to this posting, which gives a fairly comprehensive history of the 13/DLI. By all means, pass it on to your Father-in-Law... if he'd like the full version for the 14/DLI just let me know. If you're within reasonable access of Durham City and you want to do more research, copies of 13/DLI's war diaries are held at the Durham Record Office. Otherwise, the two books that provide good information about all of the regiment's "(Service)" battalions are: "Durham Forces in the Field...", by Captain Wilfred Miles. Originally published in 1920, it has recently been re-published by Naval & Military Press Limited, priced at £18. Ring 01825 - 749494 or E-Mail order.dept@naval-military-press.com. "Faithful...", by S. G. P. Ward. First published in 1962 this, too, has recently been re-published by N & M... £28 rings a bell! 13/DLI was one of three DLI battalions sent to Italy towards the end of 1917. Again, if you're not too far from Durham City, on 12 November I'm giving the War Talk at the DLI Museum entitled "The Italian Job...". Tickets are available from the Museum at a very modest cost!... 0191 - 384 - 2214. Hope all this helps. David T. 13th_Battalion__DLI.doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian turner Posted 20 October , 2005 Share Posted 20 October , 2005 Peter, Service records at Kew - yes, a bit of a lottery. You can search personally, hire a professional researcher or post a request on this site for any kind pal to do a look up for you if they are already heading for Kew themselves. Regarding cost of a professional - can be weighed against your fares/petrol/time, etc. in getting to Kew, plus chances of success of an amateur's attempt versus someone with experience. Regarding Norman - there is a medal card for a Norman Boggon who served in the Northumberland Fusiliers. Your man? Seems an unusual name, so good chance it is him. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PPCLI Posted 20 October , 2005 Share Posted 20 October , 2005 My Aunt seems to recall that Norman was in the DLI but I can find nothing of him or William on the CWGC or Soldiers Died CD. Hi Peter, Tried to post this link to Norman's medal card last night, but the NA site was playing up. This is the MIC that Ian referred to in the previous post Norman Boggon, N.F. Stuart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter1 Posted 20 October , 2005 Author Share Posted 20 October , 2005 PFF, Thank you. This is one of my favourites from those I was given. Excellent suggestion regarding the DLI museum. As the photo is not in very good condition, I did not consider any organisation would be interested. Any recommendation for a good software programme to help remove the childs scribble? The photo editing software I have is showing its age now and does not improve it much. Regards. Peter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter1 Posted 20 October , 2005 Author Share Posted 20 October , 2005 David, Thanks for the second attachment. Bill, (My Father in Law) will be thrilled when he reads it, he is so proud of his grandfathers connection with the DLI. I know what the answer is going to be when I let him know of your kind offer. He has been to Durham records but he does not own a computer, nor does he easily adapt to technology, therefore he was not at ease and did not go back! He has been to the DLI museum several times. I know he would very much appreciate the full version of the 14th Btn (as would I) but we do not wish to be an inconvenience. He has gone to Sunderland library today to look into the newspaper archives regarding John Stewart but I know he will not find it easy going. Both books look good, plenty to read on those dark winter nights! What time on the 12th will you be giving the talk? Circumstances allowing, I would like to be there. Regards. Peter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter1 Posted 20 October , 2005 Author Share Posted 20 October , 2005 Ian & Stuart, Thanks for that. When I was given the link for the Medal Cards at the NA, I did a surname search on just the Boggon surname without giving any first names. As it is such an unusual surname I did not expect many returns but was surprised when 15 hits came back! I identified Henry, George and Thomas but as I was led to believe that all the brothers enlisted in the DLI, I did not consider anything else at the time. I have a photo of Norman in civilian clothes but none of him in a uniform. I am going to ask family members more about them as I did wonder if William and Norman did serve in the military. Perhaps they were in a reserved occupation if they were involved with the coal mines. In the meantime I will look into the suggestion of the Northumberland Fusiliers. Regards, Peter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PPCLI Posted 20 October , 2005 Share Posted 20 October , 2005 Any recommendation for a good software programme to help remove the childs scribble? The photo editing software I have is showing its age now and does not improve it much. Peter, An example of a few minutes (well, maybe half an hour) work using Photoshop. Photoshop seems to work okay (not that I've used it very much so far), but I haven't used it or any other software enough to really make comparisons or recommend one over another. Stuart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter1 Posted 20 October , 2005 Author Share Posted 20 October , 2005 Hi Stuart, Very impressive. Thanks for your time and effort in editing the photo. After using the software that I have, there was still marking on the revised photo that made the damage look worse than it had done originally! I have checked on its age and found it dates from the era of Windows 98!! (may explain all the errors). I have not had many dealings with enhancing black & white photographs, as it is usually done for me but suspect that I may have to get involved from now on. Time to shake out the moths............. Regards. Peter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David T Posted 21 October , 2005 Share Posted 21 October , 2005 I know he would very much appreciate the full version of the 14th Btn (as would I)... What time on the 12th will you be giving the talk? Circumstances allowing, I would like to be there. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi Peter, No problem... the 14th Battalion is attached. As for the DLI Museum War Talk on 12 November, it'll start at 2:00 p.m.. With questions & answers, it'll last about an hour. If you do get their, please say "Hello". Regards, David 14th_Battalion__DLI.doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auimfo Posted 21 October , 2005 Share Posted 21 October , 2005 And you could always try colouring it as well. This is just a quick attempt to just colour the main features of the photo. The colours might not be exactly correct but hopefully it gives you an idea on what can be achieved. Tim L. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter1 Posted 21 October , 2005 Author Share Posted 21 October , 2005 David, Thanks for the attachment, I am very grateful for your help. There is a lot of good reading in this which gives a better understanding to the research I have started. The effort, energy and time you must have put into this is very apparent. It looks like I have a long way to go to achieve just the beginnings of the knowledge aquired by many members of this forum. Bill will also be very pleased with all of this information and hopefully you will have inspired him to return to Durham Records himself. Regards. Peter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter1 Posted 21 October , 2005 Author Share Posted 21 October , 2005 Tim, Thanks for editing the photo, what a difference! I have to admit that I had not even considered adding colour, this would be a nice way to give something back to my Aunt. So much to be getting on with and all from a few photos. Regards, Peter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marina Posted 21 October , 2005 Share Posted 21 October , 2005 Amazing in colour, Tim. Marina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaymen Posted 21 October , 2005 Share Posted 21 October , 2005 Amazing in colour, Tim. Marina <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Absolutely Tim - what software do you use for this ? Glyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auimfo Posted 21 October , 2005 Share Posted 21 October , 2005 I use 'Black Magic'. There was a discussion about this software some time ago and a few people posted their efforts - some of which put mine to shame. If you want to find out more about it just go to this website http://www.blackmagic-color.com/ I think you can download a demo version and then if you like it you can upgrade to a full version. Tim L. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Blanchard Posted 21 October , 2005 Share Posted 21 October , 2005 David T, Thanks for reminding me of the link to the Durham archive. I have made some very interesting finds with regards to photos of men in the Durham territorial bns. Excellent thanks. Do you happen to know how much they charge for a copy of a photograph? Regards David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PPCLI Posted 21 October , 2005 Share Posted 21 October , 2005 And you could always try colouring it as well. This is just a quick attempt to just colour the main features of the photo. I'll see you, and raise you a thousand(%)! Great stuff Tim, most impressed. And a bit envious - don't think Black Magic will work very well on my Mac! Tim, is the process as easy and straightforward as it's made out to be? Cheers, Stuart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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