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'Cloth Insignia'


Arthur
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Hello wipers99 

 

During 1917 they wore a green tape across the tops of their shoulder straps and a green circle on the back of the collar. The shape represented the Bde and the strap colour the Bn. Now this information doesn't vary in any of my references.

 

At the end of January 1918 they transferred to 186th Bde, 62nd Div. and absorbed the 2nd/5th Bn. The 2nd/5th Bn had worn a red rectangle the latter being the Bde shape. I have no reference to a rectangle being worn by the 1st/5th Bn but, it is more than likely that they followed suit with the rest of the Bde!

 

Try Kendo as he is working more in depth on this subject.

 

Regards 

Arthur

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  • 7 months later...

Hello Arthur, what a valuable thread.

 

I am trying to establish the service of William James Flitter, attached is a photo believed to be William, with a G sleeve patch.  

 

Only two plausible men I have found are both East Surrey Regt (The Flitters do have a connection with Surrey)

 

Any thoughts most welcome.

 

Andy

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Good afternoon Andy,

 

The only information that I have on the letter G formation sign is for the 75th Bde Royal Field Artillery who served with the Guard's Division from 1915. They were formerly part of 16th (Irish) Division.  A red letter G was made of felt for the other ranks. The officers wore a  yellow G on a dark blue felt shield like the shield that was worn by the Guard's Division. Wire on felt.

 

 I did check out Ancestry for William James Flitter and came up with The East Surrey Regiment however, I found no connection with the R.F.A. 

 

Regards

Arthur

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47 minutes ago, Arthur said:

Good afternoon Andy,

 

The only information that I have on the letter G formation sign is for the 75th Bde Royal Field Artillery who served with the Guard's Division from 1915. They were formerly part of 16th (Irish) Division.  A red letter G was made of felt for the other ranks. The officers wore a  yellow G on a dark blue felt shield like the shield that was worn by the Guard's Division. Wire on felt.

 

 I did check out Ancestry for William James Flitter and came up with The East Surrey Regiment however, I found no connection with the R.F.A. 

 

Regards

Arthur

 

My understanding Arthur is that the G applied to all corps troops within the division; and not necessarily just 75th Bde.

 

I cite the source when I can relocate it.

 

Herewith an example on a helmet in my collection.

 

Cheers,

 

GT.

75 Bde RFA Guards #3.jpg

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Thanks GT.

 

 I would have imagined that other support units would have worn the letter G using a different colour, however, the R.F.A. was the only example that I could give an answer to. British Battle Insignia (1) 1914-18 by Mike Chappell gives an example of a later version of coloured shields with a brass letter G used by supporting units. However, what he doesn't state is. What colour shields were linked to those support units.

 

Regards

Arthur

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15 minutes ago, Arthur said:

Thanks GT.

 

 I would have imagined that other support units would have worn the letter G using a different colour, however, the R.F.A. was the only example that I could give an answer to. British Battle Insignia (1) 1914-18 by Mike Chappell gives an example of a later version of coloured shields with a brass letter G used by supporting units. However, what he doesn't state is. What colour shields were linked to those support units.

 

Regards

Arthur

 

Yes: it's the only one Waring cites - for ages I attributed the helmet solely to the 75th, yet I'm sure I was informed otherwise. Mike Chappell is good, yet not wholly to be relied upon IMHO.

 

Cheers,

 

GT.

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Thank you Gentlemen for the responses, did I not post the photo? But the more I look at it, it looks like reversed number or indeed a 6 under a line...One of the Flitters was in the 1/6th Btn, but not sure a Berks man would be in Surrey Territorial Btn...

 

Andy

Screenshot_20170726-174533.jpg

Edited by HolymoleyRE
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  • 5 months later...

Not to sound like a broken record, but this has been quite a helpful thread.

I have no idea if I'm late to the party, but it's worth an ask:

 

I'm looking for any information on the insignia worn by members of the 28th Division, particularly of the 83rd and 84th Brigades.

I apologize if this was covered elsewhere.

 

Many thanks in advance!

- Joseph 

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Hi Joseph,

 

Sorry to say that there is not a lot of information for the 28th Division units.

 

The 28th Division wore a red strip on both shoulder straps.

 

83rd Bde.

2nd King’ Own Regt.

1. Rectangle blue ribbon left dark yellow right. Size and period worn is unknown!

2. Diamond blue with cap badge worn on l.h.s. of pagri. 1917

 

2nd E. York Regt

Circle red with small regimental button in the centre worn on the back by Officers and W.O.s

 

No information on 1st K.OY.L.I. and 1st Y&L Regt 

 

84th Bde

2nd Northumberland Fus. No information 

 

1st Suffolk Regt

Castle shape yellow felt worn on r.h.s. of pagri. 1917

 

2nd Cheshire Regt

Silhouette of oak leaf dark green felt worn on the back

 

1st Welsh Regt

Silhouette of P.O.W.s feathers red felt worn on the back by officers 

 

Regards 

Arthur

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Much thanks Arthur!

I've been trying to research some information on the insignia of troops of the 28th, and you sir, have provided me quite a lot!

 

 

Your information on this thread is great, and I applaud your efforts,

- Joseph

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Hi,

 

 I think that it is more of a square than a lozenge shape as the top seems to point towards the front of the epaulet rather than towards the centre of it. The only unit to wear a figure eight with a flat base and top that I have information on is the 8th Bn. Y&L Regt. Their figure eight was black and made of felt.

 

Regards.

Arthur

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12 hours ago, Arthur said:

Hi,

 

 I think that it is more of a square than a lozenge shape as the top seems to point towards the front of the epaulet rather than towards the centre of it. The only unit to wear a figure eight with a flat base and top that I have information on is the 8th Bn. Y&L Regt. Their figure eight was black and made of felt.

 

Regards.

Arthur

 

Close-ups, normal and inverted ...

5a6c53916dcf4_CopyofScreenshot_20170726-174533.jpg.9e65689434c05b149511fcfa39479ad6.jpg.1b42986c1e9ed96eeaf4e2916c22f658.jpg  5a6c53903013f_CopyofCopyofScreenshot_20170726-174533.jpg.9e65689434c05b149511fcfa39479ad6.jpg.e344f80168015423c0550b6b51083766.jpg

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Could you post a wider shot of the complete photo?  One that shows the SD jacket's central row of buttons?

 

I rather suspect this will show the jacket is NOT buttoning left over right - i.e. the image has been transposed vertically.

 

If you reverse this, the flash clearly shows a numeral '5' ...

5a6c55ead3499_OPimageReversedvertically.jpg.b41c95e8ef5bf0723b130ca62e6031f2.jpg

 

5a6c55ec13b2b_OPimageReversedverticallyzoomed.jpg.3431fbe88c719c064db36a1ac3b2ee99.jpg  5a6c55eb6e68a_OPimageReversedverticallyzoomedinverted.jpg.17bb5ecd9eff307849c576111b321330.jpg

 

See this post here for another example of a photo printed transposed:

 

 

Image on left below is the OP's original In that post.  The image on the right is the corrected version - note the tunic s buttoning L over R and the wound stripes ...

 

5a609fc70ee79_SgtASleightholmeKRRCCplWBu   5a60b8640ad96_CopyofCopyof5a609fc70ee79_

 

HTH

Mark

 

 

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Hello Mark,

 

A good piece of logic on your behalf my man. I had just taken the photograph at face value. Even though I think that you have now solved what the sign is! I still cannot find anything relating it to the East Surrey Regt.

 

Regards.

Arthur 

 

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2 hours ago, Arthur said:

Hello Mark,

 

A good piece of logic on your behalf my man. I had just taken the photograph at face value. Even though I think that you have now solved what the sign is! I still cannot find anything relating it to the East Surrey Regt.

 

Regards.

Arthur 

 

If you check which way the tunics are buttoned in the complete picture, you can easily confirm the inversion.

 

I only have Chappell and couldn't find it there :(

 

Mark

 

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