Adrian Roberts Posted 17 January , 2010 Share Posted 17 January , 2010 Well, I was warned. Many of you were saying how bad the Red Baron film was, but I thought it couldn't possibly be that bad. So last night I got round to watching it on VirginMedia's On Demand system that comes with their cable TV. At least I didn't spend as much as buying the DVD. I wanted to like this film. After all, someone had been interested enough in WW1 aviation to make it - surely, they would try and do a good job. But maybe they had to compromise for commercial reasons; turning the Red Baron from a Prussian Officer into a 21st century teenager feels like that. Whatever, this film was irredeemably awful on lots of levels. I could have forgiven them the CGI aeroplanes. Any WW1 or even most WW2 aviation films are going to have to use CGI or replicas and the latter can be just as suspect. The CGI aircraft at least looked accurate, markings and storyline aside: I quite liked the wood-varnished Albatros DIIs. But that's the end of the good news. When a real aircraft appears, it is a Curtiss Jenny masquerading as a German two-seater. I knew we were in trouble in the opening soft-focus shots of a group of handsome Aryan teenage boys, including Manfred von Richthofen as a 14 year-old when he sees a Morane-like monoplane and deciding he wants to fly - in 1906?! I nearly switched off when I saw Lanoe Hawker as a fat man with a beard (wrong on both counts and the beard wouldn't be allowed in the RFC), shot down in an SE5 - in 1916! Throughout, MvR is portrayed as a youth with a shock of blond hair who swans around in a polo-necked pullover. I know that many fighter pilots were very young; certainly Kurt Woolf looks very boyish in genuine photos of him: but MvR was 25 in 1917 and a career military officer: I don't think "boy" is what anyone meeting him would have thought. Was he blond? Photos mostly show him with his head covered; if not he is always shaven-headed - but I didn't think he was blond. Perversely, Werner Voss who was only 20 and fairly skinny, is portrayed as a rugged older man who fits his Dr.I with a captured Bentley rotary, all by himself in the hangar! Even on its own terms as a coherent piece of fiction the film fails. I think even someone with no knowledge of WW1 would be annoyed by the rapid changes of scene, many of them with no discernable purpose. And who is going to be convinced by the scene set in 1917 in which MvR and Roy Brown both force-land in No-Man's Land, which is portrayed as an idyllic cornfield. Despite one of them having a pistol, they make no attempt to fight or take each other prisoner; MvR saunters over to Brown; they exchange cigarettes and have a man-to-man chat about the futility of war. Brown says: "I may have to kill you some day!", and then they part company and amble back to their own lines, presumably avoiding being shot by both sides as they jump into the trenches. Doh!!! The only accurate bit is that Lothar is portrayed as taller and thinner than Manfred, and with dark hair. And of course they have to have a female lead; the nurse Katie Obersdorf. In real life she nursed him back to health after his head wound, but to say she did anything else is speculation. In the film, they eventually get it off, but to assume this is likely is it to look at it with a contemporary perspective. A true gentleman wouldn't have an affair with a woman of lower class whom he could never marry, unless she was actually a prostitute, in which case it was accepted. As to his head injury, there is no attempt to portray the fact that he spent the rest of his life in pain. He did become depressed about the loss of his comrades, but he didn't tell the Kaiser to surrender! At the end, Katie waves good-bye in her nightdress as he sets off on his last flight, and then the film runs out of money because we don't see what happens to him. At the least the end credits say it is not certain that Brown shot him down. But to add insult to injury, Katie gets across the lines to Allied territory "helped by friends", meets Roy Brown, who shows him the Rittmeister's grave where she pays a tearful farewell! And then presumably shags Brown. A non-enthusiast who had little knowledge of the truth may possibly think its "so bad that its good", noticing only the multiple cliches and anachronistic attitudes. Personally, I'm thinking of asking Virgin for my money back and taking out a Fatwa on the film director and anyone remotely associated with this drivel. Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsyeoman Posted 17 January , 2010 Share Posted 17 January , 2010 Ah well, to Forum pals in the UK... you can get it in Sainsbury's on DVD for £5.99. I had hoped (it's still wrapped up) that it could not possible be as bad as 'Flyboys'... but it seems it could well be! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fitzee Posted 17 January , 2010 Share Posted 17 January , 2010 Adrian This feeble quote from Director Nikolai Müllerschön: "A meticulous reconstruction of the Baron's life and the historical setting was not uppermost in mind, that didn't interest me so much. It is more important to see what is relevant for people today. I saw no sense in making the film like a well-researched documentary. However, during my preparation on the film and looking into the story of his life, the man seems to be more like how I thought he should be." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Roberts Posted 18 January , 2010 Share Posted 18 January , 2010 A meticulous reconstruction of the Baron's life and the historical setting was not uppermost in mind, that didn't interest me so much. It is more important to see what is relevant for people today. I saw no sense in making the film like a well-researched documentary. However, during my preparation on the film and looking into the story of his life, the man seems to be more like how I thought he should be." Is this post-modernism, or arrogance, or both? Or should I be kinder and just say sheer laziness and a failed attempt to appeal to the teenage market. Actually, the lead actor Mathias Schweighofer, is at 28 somewhat older than MvR. But he still looks like a teenager. Or is it me getting old? Actually I have to say that Katie Obersdorf is played by Lena Headey, who is probably slightly better-looking than a varnished-wood Albatros DII. And yes, that is meant to be a compliment; she looks as good as she did in the Terminator spin-off, so maybe it might just be worth Staffs unwrapping his DVD! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 18 January , 2010 Share Posted 18 January , 2010 I had hoped (it's still wrapped up) that it could not possible be as bad as 'Flyboys'... but it seems it could well be! 'Flyboys' is at least relieved by a splendid performance by Jean Reno (Leon). 'The Red Baron', unfortunately, is unmitigated ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hederer Posted 18 January , 2010 Author Share Posted 18 January , 2010 ...Werner Voss who was only 20 and fairly skinny, is portrayed as a rugged older... That's Til Schweiger. I think he's been in every German movie filmed in the last 20 years--it's a law here that you have to see his face at least five times a day on the TV! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 18 January , 2010 Share Posted 18 January , 2010 Adrian, a critic amongst critics - fantastic. Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fitzee Posted 18 January , 2010 Share Posted 18 January , 2010 This is taken from another well known "WW1 aviation website" that was discussing the film " My name is Thomas, I designed ALL of the aircraft on the Red Baron feature, and gave all of the initial texture maps to Pixomondo. Obviously, I love the genre as much as all of you. But please do not speak to the film as if you know JACK, about making a feature. With that said, I will maintain my position that The Red baron is the greatest WW1 aviation film to date. Be advised that it is actually an ANTI-WAR film, surprising as it may be, considering that, that is not what you would expect. Especially since no one up to this point has had the balls to do a film like this.... but hey, if you don't get it, you don't get it...." The arrogance appears to have been contagious. Fitzee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 19 January , 2010 Share Posted 19 January , 2010 Not so much an anti-war film as an anti-war-film film, I think ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobL Posted 19 January , 2010 Share Posted 19 January , 2010 This is taken from another well known "WW1 aviation website" that was discussing the film " My name is Thomas, I designed ALL of the aircraft on the Red Baron feature, and gave all of the initial texture maps to Pixomondo. Obviously, I love the genre as much as all of you. But please do not speak to the film as if you know JACK, about making a feature. With that said, I will maintain my position that The Red baron is the greatest WW1 aviation film to date. Be advised that it is actually an ANTI-WAR film, surprising as it may be, considering that, that is not what you would expect. Especially since no one up to this point has had the balls to do a film like this.... but hey, if you don't get it, you don't get it...." The arrogance appears to have been contagious. Fitzee I love this bit ' Especially since no one up to this point has had the balls to do a film like this' - so, no one's ever done an anti-war film before?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelsjbl Posted 20 January , 2010 Share Posted 20 January , 2010 Having seen this film several months ago, my opinion was that it was cr*p. I have since seen it again and revised my original opinion. I now think it is CR*P (In block capitals) Flyboys was bad enough, but this was just rubbish. If it hadn't supposedly been about the Baron, but was just a generic WW1 aviation type film it would have been bad enough, but if the GERMANS were going to make a film about THEIR greatest WW1 ace, you would think that they would at least get their basic facts right. Artistic licence is one thing but this film is just WRONG! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebrys Posted 20 January , 2010 Share Posted 20 January , 2010 Having watched the film over the weekend I must say that I was completely disappointed in it from beginning to end! It was just so wrong! Having read about this man and his life for the past 35years made me wince each time every inaccuracy and unlikely scenario occurred! Even the action scenes couldn't mollify my disappointment. A shame really! There was so much potential here - but the film seemed strong on sound-bytes and posturing - even the storyline suffered as a result. Such disappointment. Trebrys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carol@kettle.org.uk Posted 20 January , 2010 Share Posted 20 January , 2010 I had actually asked for this film as a criggy presssie but didnt get it. Perhaps from the reviews here I should be pleased. What I can't understand is, if Hollywood want to make a generic war film, U-Boat film etc etc, that they dont just do that. It seems strange to me that you want to portray a historic event or character and then deviate entirely from the truth. I understand that they are not meant to be documentaries but feature films for enjoyment and so certain artistic license is to be expected, but I have deep reservations about mixing total fiction with historic fact. It has been done before, Battle of The Bulge and a Bridge too Far for instance aren't perfect but at least they are a reasonable representation. I wonder why more modern films cant achieve this? Is it because of the 'female element'? Is it felt that there must be a leading lady, a romantic interest to appeal to a female audience? I like Bridget Jones's Diary with the best of them but I dont expect Audrey Hepburn to turn up on the cast list of Battle of the River Plate. What do others think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluedog Posted 20 January , 2010 Share Posted 20 January , 2010 I waited for quite some time until the DVD was released in Australia. I was disappointed that the film did not show the burial of MVR at Bertangles with an Australian guard of honour nor did it show the crash site at the brickworks outside Corbie. No mention was made of the possibility that he was shot down by Australian troops. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 20 January , 2010 Share Posted 20 January , 2010 What I can't understand is, if Hollywood want to make a generic war film, U-Boat film etc etc, that they dont just do that. The Red Baron is a German production, not a Hollywood film. I like Bridget Jones's Diary with the best of them but I dont expect Audrey Hepburn to turn up on the cast list of Battle of the River Plate. Indeed not, but that fine war film The African Queen would have been a poor thing without Katherine Hepburn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carol@kettle.org.uk Posted 20 January , 2010 Share Posted 20 January , 2010 Yes I know it is a 'German film' but isnt it from Warner Bros? P.s the boat they used for African Queen is in Key Largo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 20 January , 2010 Share Posted 20 January , 2010 Yes I know it is a 'German film' but isnt it from Warner Bros? As distributors, perhaps, but the film itself is entirely German-scripted, German-made and German-financed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carol@kettle.org.uk Posted 20 January , 2010 Share Posted 20 January , 2010 My mistake then. Now don't I look an opinionated nit-wit?? (do I get points back for knowing where the African Queen is though?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 20 January , 2010 Share Posted 20 January , 2010 Your penance, Carol, is to borrow a copy of The Red Baron and watch it twice ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carol@kettle.org.uk Posted 20 January , 2010 Share Posted 20 January , 2010 I might have to take my punishment then. Carol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsyeoman Posted 20 January , 2010 Share Posted 20 January , 2010 As distributors, perhaps, but the film itself is entirely German-scripted, German-made and German-financed. Now, what's that phrase about 'blame lies where it falls' ?? And I rescind points for Carol... I thought "the boat from the African Queen is in Key Largo" meant... Wow! Two Bogart movies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carol@kettle.org.uk Posted 20 January , 2010 Share Posted 20 January , 2010 I thought "the boat from the African Queen is in Key Largo" meant... Wow! Two Bogart movies! It was going to be an updated/sequel version of the classic with Ben Stiller instead of Bogart and Owen Wilson as the new Robert Morley. Sadly they couldnt raise the funds and they couldnt get Keira Knightley for Katherine Hepburns part. The money was used to re-film the Italian Job instead. SEE, You've got me started now !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsyeoman Posted 21 January , 2010 Share Posted 21 January , 2010 Yeah, I know. And I looked high and low in this new Red Baron film, and Snoopy wasn't in it once. I want my money back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carol@kettle.org.uk Posted 21 January , 2010 Share Posted 21 January , 2010 In the nick of time, a hero arose A funny-lookin' dog with a big black nose He flew into the sky to seek revenge But the Baron shot him down "Curses, foiled again!" ALL TOGETHER NOW ................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toofatfortakeoff Posted 3 February , 2010 Share Posted 3 February , 2010 I have seen this photo before but look at the attitude of the hands. Thinking about gripping Machine gun triggers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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