Interesting set of medals!!!

[Guest Hill 60]

Not wanting to cast any doubt what so ever on this group - how old was he during WW1?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No doubt at all on the group Neil. Without getting the files out (not on CD yet!!) I can't check his age in WWI.

However, I have his full fire service records (very helpful people at the London Fire Brigade Museum and Records Archive) which confirms his service (name, rank, number) in the RA in WWI.

He served through into around 1956 ending up as Station Officer (and at one point acting ADO - Assistant Divisional Officer).

The records confirm both LSGC Medal awards. I have checked his (Queen's head) Fire Brigade LSGC Medal with the one my father was awarded (also for service with the LFB) and the lettering is the same on both.

Gordon - As for the PC and the Jack the Ripper, I haven't got the paperwork to hand but I'll try to get it today or tomorrow.

It was whilst I was trying to research the Windlesham Fire Brigade medal that I was handed a copy of an article in one of the OMRS journals by (I think) the author. The author of the article had the medal group belonging to the Chief Fire Officer and included in the story about his previous serive as a young PC on the Ripper hunt.

[NeilD]

Obviously your man had a long and illustrious career.

NeilD

[Guest Hill 60]

Whats the story behind the guy, who was a young Bobby during the hunt for Jack the Ripper?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Gordon - Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, I'm not a 100% at the moment

The Windlesham medal I have in my collection was awarded to Alfred Rapley. During WWI he was in the RE, his number beginning with 'WR'; which I am told by the RE Museum that he was in either the Railway Company or the Inland Water Transport section (they don't know what the initials stand for).

Alfred's Chief Fire Officer was one William Eustace. He was awarded the Windlesham Parish Fire Brigade Long Service Medal at the same time as Alfred. There were only 8 medals ever issued, and William's was the only one with a gold centre; not because he was the Chief but because he had done 20 years and the the other 7 had done 10 years service. Of the 7, all silver, medals there is only two know to still exist, mine and the one in the Surrey Fire and Rescue Service Museum.

Anyway, back to William Eustace.

The only info I have on this man was gathered from two articles in the Winter 1973 and Spring 1974 editions of the Orders and Medals Research Society by Patrick S. Grierson.

It is the 2nd article that has the mention of the 'Ripper'.

Mr Owen Street, the 2nd Fire Officer, gave me the first indication that this was in fact a single group when he told me that Mr Eustace had informed him that he had taken part in the search for 'Jack the Ripper' in 1888 during his Metropolitan Police service

The group mentioned comprises of the following:

Defence Medal.

1887 Jubilee Medal with 1897 bar.

1902 Coronation Medal.

1911 Coronation Medal.

Special Constabulary LSM with bars: the Great War 1914-18, Long Service 1929 and Long Service 1937.

National Fire Brigades' Association bronze medal in 1926 for 10 years service.

National Fire Brigades' Association silver medal in 1936 for 20 years service, with bar for another 5 years.

Windlesham Parish Fire Brigade Long Service Medal in 1937.

In 1937, when he qualified for his Special's LS Medal and the Fire Brigade LS Medal, he was 72 years old!

He died in 1946 at the age of 81 years and is buried in the Lightwater Cemetery, Surrey.

[Hopkins1418]

Damn you lot are messing with big money!!!

Im 16 so as you can imagine Im sticking to my ww2 stars at the moment! Ive got the atlantic and Air crew europe to complete my collection. Still Im in awe of your colections. Ive come across some dodgy medals myself lately nearly got scammed with a burma star, the guy new exactly what he was doing. what do you thinks best as a step up from the stars?? Boer war?

In the mean time keep sending the attachments there brills

[soz just realised youve totally nothing to do with the subject just thought id throw a question in.]

[Rob B]

Will,

I started at your age my son started when he was 11 and he went for the second war collection and a couple of foreign decorations because you can still pick up american and french medals fairly cheaply.

Don't unless you are prepared to spend your shirt on your hobby as you will! go down the Boer War route as you will get your fingers burnt.

Go to collectors, look at car boots and have a look at auctions and read up on your hobby. A bit like stamps go for things that interest you and you could have a look at the modern British medals which are common and cheapish like the UN issues, Koovo and the Balkans.

All the best.

Rob

[NeilD]

Rob,

There's nothing common or cheap about my NATO Medal - I liked the company so much I got 2 . Seriously Will it's go to see the youngsters getting involved and take heed of what Rob has said - be careful there are some rogues out there only after your money who don't give a damn about the medals, men or the history.

NeilD

[Hopkins1418]

Cheers people. Got interested first through my dads set [he was in the Royal Marines hes got a general service medal with Northen Ireland/ North Iraq south Turkey 1991/ South Atlantic/ good conduct and long service.]. Then I started on a pristine set of France and Germany/39-45 star/defense/Bwm To a local infantry unit and it went from there.

Im thinking about tracing down a ww1 1914-15 star/victory/BWM to a Yorkshire regiment 5th Green howards if possible and researching them to the max [thats my great grandads unit]. Then after that a SA 1899-1900 set if possible. Thats gonna take some saving though.

Thanks for all your advice

out of interest what would be your most prized set???

will

[Rob B]

Will,

As a boy (aged 6) I swopped one of my dads cap badges for a friends great grandfathers medals he had 2 China War and Army of India (1799-1826) with Bhurtpoor bar after major family intevention I got the Bhurtpoor one so that was my best.

I sold it at Glendinnings 10 years ago for £450.

Rob

[Hopkins1418]

Ive just been down the local shop Parade Antiques in plymouth. I didnt realise they had so many new sets. There were Three MM's one to a G.B Watson of the Kings own Sccottish Borderers with a BWm and Victory alonside it and the other two were singles all were at the £650 mark. They also had a few Sa medals of which the cheapest with one bar was £100 and the other had 6 and was about £250 they also had a general sevice from the Napolionic era. Im keeping my eye on a 1914 bwm victory set to a Hampshire Reg.

Rob did you know the significance of what you had swapped? wow I bet you smile about it know. do you regret selling them?

Medals have sky rocketed in price since my dad was younger he remembers men walking around with gallentry medals of all kinds on their chests when he was younger and thought nothing of it.

any one else have any interesting sets ????

[9th Black Watch]

Hi Will,

In addition to the excellent Great War Forum you should also register with the following.

There are a few members who post on both.

http://www.britishmedalforum.com/

There are plenty of interesting groups listed in the showcases.

It's difficult to identify the most prized group in my collection but the Hill 70 DCM and 14/15 trio group to Sergt. I. Green, 9th R.Highrs., is one of my favourites.

Derek

[per ardua per mare per terram]

Will

I was scammed by a major London auction house on my first Air Crew Europe.

Rather than going for sets your next step could be WW1 singletons and start learning your way around doing the research. Even casualties are less than a few McDonalds meals, about the book price of the Atlantic Star or a pair of bad brand trainers. Survivors from the big battles can be picked up for less than the France & Germany Star.

With the RN most of their service are now online.

For the army, read about research on the long long trail site.

The RAF papers all survive too, but not online.

Fred

[per ardua per mare per terram]

My best complete ww1 set is RN:

Boer War - HMS Terrible

China - HMS Terrible (the only ship to do the double)

1914-15 Star trio

singleton is an RND MM the full set would be:

DCM

MM

1914 Star, Clasp trio

[per ardua per mare per terram]

Will

Or you could stick with WW2 and go for the named (South African and Australian are the ones I've seen most) varieties.

Fred

[Hopkins1418]

Thanks for your advice. Im going to have a good search around before making any decisions. I know of two shops in the Plymouth area. Its a bit of a long shot but do any of you guys know of any others in the area?

[Gordon Caldecott]

Saw these.......

[Hopkins1418]

hmmm the star looks a bit suspicious

[per ardua per mare per terram]

It looks like a normal miniture one to me.

[Guest sheldrake]

These three have lived in a box since issue. They were awarded to Lt WV Smith, 8 Glos Regt, who was killed in 1917. As a result, they've never been mounted, so, guys, should I have them mounted and, if so, swing or court? Or, are they a better set for not being mounted?

Jumping forward a few years, here's my great uncle's MC set. Again, all unmounted because he never wore them (note he did wear the miniatures so they are mounted). Should I mount them?

Another question, is the medal on the right an efficiency medal? If so, it implies the wearer was non-commissioned but the MC implies the opposite. In reality, he won his MC as a RTR squadron commander. Any thoughts?

thanks

Phil

[welshdoc]

You lucky so so have such wonderful family medals. These will be fun to research. The likelihood is your relative was awarded the terri efficiency medal as a non com or private otherwise he would have as an officer had the terri decoration. He clearly was promoted and went on to won the MC. You should be able to find his MC award in the London Gazette also when he was commissioned . This may take a little digging but its worth the effort. If you’ve never used the LG online and have problems just ask on the forum and there will be lots of help. Good luck hunting . Gareth

PS I would place your post under its own thread also add your great uncles name so we also can have a look for him. As for mounting the medals dont, if your great uncle wanted them mounted he would have done it themselves. Anyway if you wanted them displayed it would be easier without the mounting bar. Have you looked up the CWGC website this gives lots of interesting information in particular where he was buried. G

[Guest sheldrake]

Thanks for that. I'm not sure how you move a topic to its own thread - suggestions welcome.

I thought the end medal was the TA efficiency. I'm not sure how his service was calculated, I think he joined as a trooper in 1937, was commissioned around 1940 and a temporary major by the end of the war. However, the medal's rim is inscribed as a captain and his eff med was gazetted on June 13 1950 as Capt (Hon Maj).

I have found his gazette entry for the MC which reads on June 28 1945:

Major (temporary) Frederick Ashley HAIGH (164140), Royal Tank Regiment, Royal Armoured Corps (Bristol).

He served in the war with 48 RTR and is mentioned in the book 'With Churchills to War' (or similar title) the history of that unit. It doesn't give details of his MC action so I'd be grateful for any suggestions as to where to look next.

Phil.

[Gordon Caldecott]

Many thanks for sharing these medals with us!!!!!!! I`d say that the medals would have been worn swing style as I think i`m right in saying that in those days, only Regiments that had guarded the Queen/King could wear their medals court mounted, but I might be wrong. I know that now a days, its your own choice. I have mine court mounted. Its deaer, but looks nicer, I`m sure you`ll agree.

As regards to the Eff. medal, maybe your relative was a Sgt Maj, that way he could have been awarded both medals?? Just a thought?

I recently added this medal to my collection. Q.S.A. 1 Bar Cape Colony. Pte. G. Whitlegg. 22nd Coy. 2nd Imp. Yeo. Died of enteric fever on 12-12-1900 at Maitland. Which I`m looking forward to researching!!!

[welshdoc]

Hi Phil starting a new thread is easy just look at the open page and there is a "New topic" box near the top of and bottom of the page. Just click and insert your new post with a snazzy title put in your info pics etc and off you go. As for the (territorial ) Efficiency medal its for 12 years service with war service counting double. I have never understood why some officers are awarded this medal rather than the Effiency decoration. I guess its because they wre raised from the ranks . It will Im sure be worth placing the new topic as lots of members probably wont look at this topic as its an old one. GAreth

[Tony Farrell]

As for the Efficiency Medal (Territorial) it's for 12 years' service - with war service counting double. I have never understood why some officers are awarded this medal rather than the Effiency Decoration. I guess its because they were raised from the ranks.

Precisely. Eligibility for the EM counted from attestation in the ranks in the TA - regardless of subsequent commission or service in other arms of service (or both). It's quite complicated, but that's the bare bones of it. Officers who had earned the EM could, however, go on to earn the TD - providing they'd accrued the required (commissioned) time extra to that of their EM. Again, it's very complicated, but certainly possible.

[Guest sheldrake]

Precisely. Eligibility for the EM counted from attestation in the ranks in the TA - regardless of subsequent commission or service in other arms of service (or both). It's quite complicated, but that's the bare bones of it. Officers who had earned the EM could, however, go on to earn the TD - providing they'd accrued the required (commissioned) time extra to that of their EM. Again, it's very complicated, but certainly possible.

Which is slightly different to the more recent rules. My service started in the ranks and those years counted as half towards my TD. Of course, now the TD itself is history...

[Gordon Caldecott]

Another interetsing group, appears to be an orignal set. Researchable? Surely there can`t have been that many DSC & bars, awarded during the Great War.